From: Peter Bowditch on
"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374(a)> wrote:

>"John Palmer" <jpalmer1(a)> wrote in message
>> On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 11:33:40 GMT, "Jeff" <news(a)> wrote:
>>>>> That's true of any drugs. I have read one of Peter Breggin's books. He
>>>>> clearly doesn't, IMHO, understand ADHD.
>>>> He tells it like it is.
>>>He tells it like he sees it. And what he sees is the royalties he gets
>>>his books sell.
>> He does neither. He's a liar.

And send him money.

<snip massive advertisement for Breggin>
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project
Australian Council Against Health Fraud
Australian Skeptics
To email me use my first name only at
From: Peter Bowditch on
"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374(a)> wrote:

>"Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)> wrote in message
>> Jeff wrote:
>>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)> wrote in message
>>> news:81eJh.4039$0W5.287(a)trndny05...
>>> <...>
>>> What makes one group who calls themselves "Christian" more "Christian"
>>> than another group?
>> Caring
>For all, even the homeless?
>Enough to share??

Did you have a vacation recently, Jan? How hypocritical of you. Why
didn't you stay home and give the money to the homeless?
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project
Australian Council Against Health Fraud
Australian Skeptics
To email me use my first name only at
From: Mark Probert on
Peter Bowditch wrote:
> Mark Probert <markprobert(a)> wrote:
>> Roman Bystrianyk wrote:
>>> On Mar 12, 10:12 am, Mark Probert <markprob...(a)>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Roman Bystrianyk wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 12, 7:56 am, "Jeff" <n...(a)> wrote:
>>>>>> "Roman Bystrianyk" <rbystria...(a)> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:1173703215.408421.218430(a)
>>>>>>>>> While the research concerning ADD and ADHD has been around for decades,
>>>>>>>>> DavidSon said he observed increased diagnoses in the mid-1980s and into
>>>>>>>>> the 1990s. "Initially, young boys were primarily the ones diagnosed
>>>>>>>>> followed by girls and then adults. I cannot speak for other practices,
>>>>>>>>> but I noted the growth was consistent with the expansion and
>>>>>>>>> development
>>>>>>>>> of video games. Additionally, you must consider the contributions of
>>>>>>>>> poor
>>>>>>>>> diet and faulty-discipline to ADHD. Diet and discipline have declined
>>>>>>>>> over time. It is a matter of record that our children have higher
>>>>>>>>> incidents of obesity, and don't mention the condition of
>>>>>>>>> child-discipline
>>>>>>>>> in the nation."
>>>>>>>> Diet, family discipline, and video games don't cause ADHD.
>>>>>>> This study maybe of interest to you. Enjoy your day.
>>>>>>> Roman Bystrianyk, "Flax seed oil and vitamin C improve ADHD", Health
>>>>>>> Sentinel, January 8, 2006,
>>>>>>> Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, or ADHD, is the most
>>>>>>> commonly diagnosed behavioral disorder in children. The diagnosis
>>>>>>> affects approximately 3-5% of school-going children. Studies have
>>>>>>> established that certain long-chained fatty acids are critical for
>>>>>>> normal brain development. Additional studies have show that
>>>>>>> deficiencies or imbalances in these fatty acids contribute to ADHD.
>>>>>>> Fatty acids, docosahexaenoic acid or DHA and eicosapentanoic acid or
>>>>>>> EPA, are key for normal brain development and found in large amounts
>>>>>>> in fish oil. Alpha linolenic acid, or ALA, is a precursor fatty acid
>>>>>>> to DHA and is found in large amounts in flax seed oil. Children can
>>>>>>> convert ALA to DHA, but the conversion is dependent on adequate
>>>>>>> amounts of ALA and a low level of linoleic acid, or LA, in the diet.
>>>>>>> LA is found in large amounts in corn, safflower, sunflower, and canola
>>>>>>> oils.
>>>>>>> A study in the January 2006 issue of the journal Prostaglandins,
>>>>>>> Leukotrienes and Essential Fatty Acids, examined 30 children diagnosed
>>>>>>> with ADHD along with 30 healthy control children. They were given flax
>>>>>>> oil supplements containing 200 mg of ALA along with 25 mg of vitamin C
>>>>>>> two times a day for 3 months. A trained clinical psychologist analyzed
>>>>>>> the children's behavior before and after the 3 months. The children's
>>>>>>> blood cells were also analyzed before and after the supplementation to
>>>>>>> determine the change in fatty acids.
>>>>>>> It was found that at the end of the 3 months there was a "significant
>>>>>>> increase" in the levels of both EPA and DHA. All ADHD measures were
>>>>>>> improved after the 3 months. "Individual scores of Inattention,
>>>>>>> Impulsivity, Restlessness and Self-Control reduced significantly post-
>>>>>>> supplementation. SI [social problems] and I [learning problems] scores
>>>>>>> constituting RPS [Related Problem Score] were found to be
>>>>>>> significantly decreasing in the post-supplementation group."
>>>>>>> All the children in the enrolled study completed the 3 months of
>>>>>>> supplementation with no dropouts. The supplements were well accepted
>>>>>>> by all the children and there were no side effects.
>>>>>>> The authors conclude that, "All the symptoms like impulsivity,
>>>>>>> restlessness, inattention, self-control, psychosomatic problems and
>>>>>>> learning problems showed highly significant improvement. Social
>>>>>>> problems and learning problems together constituted-related problems
>>>>>>> score also dropped significantly. There is considerable evidence that
>>>>>>> polyunsaturated fatty acid supplementation brought about improvement
>>>>>>> in educational and behavioral problems among children with
>>>>>>> developmental coordination disorder and reduction in ADHD-related
>>>>>>> symptoms."
>>>>>>> SOURCE: Prostaglandins, Leukotrienes and Essential Fatty Acids,
>>>>>>> January 2006
>>>>>> This was a poor study design. The control group (normal kids) was different
>>>>>> than the treatment group (ADHD kids). The control group and the treatment
>>>>>> group should both have been kids with ADHD. The kids should have been
>>>>>> randomly assigned to one group or the other. And both groups should have
>>>>>> recieved pills (without anyone knowing what was in them).
>>>>>> The results of the study as done are useless.
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>> And perhaps this report ...
>>>>> Jenny Hope, "Junk food diet 'makes children badly behaved'", Daily
>>>>> Mail, May 3, 2005,
>>>>> Link:
>>>>> Diets high in processed foods are causing bad behaviour and learning
>>>>> difficulties in children, scientists have warned.
>>>>> They claim junk food stops the brain working properly, leading to
>>>>> underachievement and a host of disorders.
>>>>> Such foods not only lack the vitamins, minerals and essential fatty
>>>>> acids that boost brain power but actually reduce the body's uptake of
>>>>> nutrients that improve concentration, a study has found.
>>>>> Thousands of children given medication to combat attention deficit
>>>>> disorder might be better off simply improving their diet, according to
>>>>> the research.
>>>>> The Oxford University study showed that giving children essential fats
>>>>> found in fish and nuts could improve their brain power.
>>>>> Their ability to learn was increased and their behaviour dramatically
>>>>> improved by supplementing their diets with such fats.
>>>>> Startling results
>>>>> Startling results in children who were underachieving and in some
>>>>> cases being disruptive were recorded after just three months.
>>>>> The study involved more than 100 British children battling with
>>>>> physical co-ordination problems.
>>>>> They were given daily supplements rich in omega-3 essential fats that
>>>>> are vital for brain development but have been reduced in the national
>>>>> diet over the last couple of decades.
>>>>> In the study, around 40 per cent of children given omega-3 supplements
>>>>> made dramatic improvements in reading and spelling.
>>>>> There was also a significant improvement in concentration and
>>>>> behaviour, according to a report in this month's issue of the American
>>>>> journal Pediatrics.
>>>>> Researchers were led by Dr Alexandra Richardson, from Oxford
>>>>> University's department of physiology.
>>>>> "What we've shown is that you can improve behaviour and learning with
>>>>> these oils," she said.
>>>>> "Food affects behaviour. To ignore the role of nutrition is
>>>>> indefensible. If you paid attention to diet you could really make a
>>>>> difference."
>>>>> Patrick Holford, who runs the Brain Bio Centre which tackles mental
>>>>> health problems through nutrition, said: "We're seeing outrageous
>>>>> imbalances in brain chemistry caused by the kinds of foods that sadly
>>>>> millions of kids are eating, and no one's doing anything about it.
>>>>> "These kids are digging their own graves with a knife and fork. We
>>>>> know some fats found in processed and fried foods should be avoided.
>>>>> "However, there are other fats that are essential and a deficiency can
>>>>> negatively impact on a child's behaviour."
>>>>> The study involved 117 children aged five to 12 in schools in County
>>>>> Durham.
>>>>> The children were of normal ability but underachieving and suspected
>>>>> of having dyspraxia, a condition that affects co-ordination. It is
>>>>> thought to affect at least 5 per cent of British pupils.
>>>>> Even greater numbers have learning and behavioural disorders such as
>>>>> dyslexia and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Half the
>>>>> children were given omega-3 essential fats capsules for three months,
>>>>> while the remainder were given "dummy" treatment with capsules of
>>>>> olive oil.
>>>>> Making progress
>>>>> Those on omega-3s made up to ten months' progress in reading in three
>>>>> months, compared with those taking olive oil who made normal progress.
>>>>> When the children swapped treatments, there was a similar jump forward
>>>>> for those transferred to omega-3s for the second three-month period.
>>>>> After three months on the supplements, half showed such improvement
>>>>> they were no longer classified as having problems.
>>>>> In some cases, children improved their reading age by up to four
>>>>> years.
>>>>> Dr Richardson, who is also co-director of the Food and Behaviour
>>>>> Research charity, said unhealthy dietary fats can actually displace
>>>>> the healthy fats in the brain.
>>>>> Known as trans fats, they are mostly found in processed foods such as
>>>>> crisps, biscuits and cakes.
>>>>> Many teenagers get 40 per cent of their calories from fat.
>>>>> The researchers are worried that such poor diets could permanently
>>>>> damage brain development.
>>>> Still, no blinding, placebo, etc.
>>>> As for food and AD/HD, the diagnostic protocol for AD/HD provides that
>>>> when all other causes of the behaviors have been ruled out, and the
>>>> behaviors still exist, then the diagnosis of AD/HD is appropriate.
>>>> If food is shown to cause the behaviors, then it is NOT AD/HD.
>>> And this one with placebo?
>> I would prefer to refer to this as "product testing" rather than a
>> study. They are "testing" a specific retail product.
>> This "study" is more than likely sponsored by the manufacturer. Using
>> the typical alt logic applied in these newsgroups, it is therefore
>> useless, except to promote sales.
>> However, let's discuss it anyway.
>>> "Omega-3 fish oil 'can treat ADHD'", Daily Telegraph, June 21, 2006,
>>> Link:,20281,19540064-5001028,00.html
>>> OMEGA-3 fish oil can be more effective than stimulant drugs commonly
>>> prescribed for children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
>>> (ADHD), according to new research.
>>> The University of South Australia research tested a supplement called
>>> eye q, a combination of omega-3 fish oil and omega-6 evening primrose
>>> oil.
>>> The supplement was tested on 132 ADHD children over a period of 15 to
>>> 30 weeks.
>>> At the end of the 30 week period, almost half of the children had
>>> reduced ADHD symptoms, according to their parents who completed
>>> assessment questionnaires for the study.
>> Which half would that be?
>>> For the initial 15 weeks of the study, children were divided into
>>> three groups: one taking eye q; another eye q and a low dose multi
>>> vitamin/mineral supplement and; a third group taking a placebo.
>>> After 15 weeks, all children went on eye q and the multi vitamin/
>>> minerals.
>> What research model would this be? The effect on the placebo group is
>> not mentioned.
>>> "Around 30 per cent of the children had shown strong positive
>>> treatment effects on the core ADHD symptoms of inattention and
>>> hyperactivity-impulsivity compared to the placebo group after 15
>>> weeks," study leader Natalie Sinn said.
>> A nutritionist who is hyperfocused on fish oil.
>>> "These effects were mirrored in the placebo group following their
>>> switch to active treatment, and the fish oil groups continued to
>>> improve after taking the supplement for a further 15 weeks.
>>> "According to the data, the multi vitamin/mineral supplement had no
>>> additional effects."
>> Would be nice to see the data.
>> BTW, Natalie Sinn gets ZERO hits on GoogleScholar.
> She's not too quacky,
> What worries me is that the study could have been influenced by the
> suppliers of the Eye-Q product, who are, of course, touting the
> as-yet-unpublished research to the rooftops.
> A word on pricing:
> 180 Eye-Q tablets (400mg fish oil, 100mg evening primrose oil) $62.95
> And here's the ones I take:
> 200 Nature's Own fish oil (1000mg fish oil) $20.25 (That's recommended
> retail price - I pay less)
> 200 Nature's Own EPO (1000mg) $29.00
> It doesn't look like Eye-Q is a bargain, but I didn't expect it to be.

I saw similar comments on some websites about its hefty price. Like I
said, the "study" seems to be for marketing purposes and now looks even
moreso, just to justify the inflated price. BTW, are the prices you
quoted AU$ or US$?

We went shopping at Woolworths on George St. and I found the prices
there to be reasonable, except for items that were clearly imported. One
of our regular purchases was double that what we pay at home, and we got
half the product, thus a four-fold increase for a medical necessity.

From: Mark Probert on
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
> On Mar 12, 10:42 am, Mark Probert <markprob...(a)>
> wrote:
>> Jeff wrote:
>>> "Mark Probert" <markprob...(a)> wrote in message
>>> news:81eJh.4039$0W5.287(a)trndny05...
>>> <...>
>>> What makes one group who calls themselves "Christian" more "Christian"
>>> than another group?
>> Caring
> Hey, Mark, thanks for the link. Bible studies can be a challenge when
> the brain won't slow down enough. I've found that I can focus better
> in our adult Sunday school class if I'm spinning with my drop
> spindle. It keeps my hands busy enough that I can focus on the
> discussion without worrying about something to fiddle with. I'll have
> to see if there's something in the Bible Studies link of that site
> that would work for me.

Glad to help. How are the kids and the kids? ;)

Watch your email for a link to some pics of our trip. We are still
sorting out 900 digital pictures, enhancing and cropping.

From: Mark Probert on
Peter Bowditch wrote:
> " " <> wrote:
>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)> wrote in message
>> news:XxeJh.7517$t8.2836(a)trndny02...
>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)> wrote in message
>>>> news:81eJh.4039$0W5.287(a)trndny05...
>>>> <...>
>>>> What makes one group who calls themselves "Christian" more "Christian"
>>>> than another group?
>>> Caring
>> For all, even the homeless?
>> Enough to share??
> Did you have a vacation recently, Jan? How hypocritical of you. Why
> didn't you stay home and give the money to the homeless?

There are many ways to help a person. Some people feed them immediately,
others teach them how to farm and care for themselves.

AFAIAC, both are worthy.