From: dejablues on

"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:rucog55rfo5v8n07bjh7vu92gfgrn6cgl8(a)4ax.com...
> My niece is considering sending her child to private school because
> they don't have spelling in the her son's class. The reason given is
> that some people in the class are not native English speakers. Does
> that reason make sense to anyone? It doesn't to me.

You did not say how old this child is. Elementary age, I guess, because
spelling here is not taught here after 5th or 6th grade. They get points off
a writing assignment if they misspell words, but it is not actively taught,
and children have been using spellcheck for a long time by that point
anyway.

Proper spelling is something you get from reading and writing a lot. Mostly
from reading. "Teaching" spelling does no good unless a child reads, writes,
and is constantly exposed to written language in all aspects of life, not
just school.
That being said, some people are just "spelling blind". It's just not
something they get.
If your sister wants her grandchild to be a good speller, she needs to make
sure he's a good reader.


From: Welches on

"dejablues" <dejablues(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hei8fi$no2$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Rosalie B." <gmbeasley(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:rucog55rfo5v8n07bjh7vu92gfgrn6cgl8(a)4ax.com...
>> My niece is considering sending her child to private school because
>> they don't have spelling in the her son's class. The reason given is
>> that some people in the class are not native English speakers. Does
>> that reason make sense to anyone? It doesn't to me.
>
> You did not say how old this child is. Elementary age, I guess, because
> spelling here is not taught here after 5th or 6th grade. They get points
> off a writing assignment if they misspell words, but it is not actively
> taught, and children have been using spellcheck for a long time by that
> point anyway.
>
> Proper spelling is something you get from reading and writing a lot.
> Mostly from reading. "Teaching" spelling does no good unless a child
> reads, writes, and is constantly exposed to written language in all
> aspects of life, not just school.
> That being said, some people are just "spelling blind". It's just not
> something they get.
> If your sister wants her grandchild to be a good speller, she needs to
> make sure he's a good reader.
>
Good reader doesn't necessarily equal good speller. I was an avid reader, I
read Lord of the Rings at 6yo. But I still can't spell. At times I can't
even get close enough to the word for the spell check to recognise it. I've
been asking #1 (age now 9yo) to spell words for me for a good couple of
years.
Dh never has a problem on spelling, and never did. He just seems to do it
naturally, and sometimes thinks I'm messing around when I can't spell a word
because it seems so obvious to him.

#1's been having spelling tests in school since she was year 1 (age 5-6) but
they tend not to corrrect spellings in the writing as they're concentrating
on the "flow" rather than the spellings. This hinders her because she likes
to be correct, so she'll only write words she's confident of spelling
correctly.

The non-English speaker suggestion sounds like an excuse rather than the
real reason to me.
Debbie


From: Rosalie B. on
"Welches" <debbie.welchNO(a)SPAMntlworldPLEASE.com> wrote:

>
>"dejablues" <dejablues(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:hei8fi$no2$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Rosalie B." <gmbeasley(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:rucog55rfo5v8n07bjh7vu92gfgrn6cgl8(a)4ax.com...
>>> My niece is considering sending her child to private school because
>>> they don't have spelling in the her son's class. The reason given is
>>> that some people in the class are not native English speakers. Does
>>> that reason make sense to anyone? It doesn't to me.
>>
>> You did not say how old this child is. Elementary age, I guess, because
>> spelling here is not taught here after 5th or 6th grade. They get points
>> off a writing assignment if they misspell words, but it is not actively
>> taught, and children have been using spellcheck for a long time by that
>> point anyway.
>>
>> Proper spelling is something you get from reading and writing a lot.
>> Mostly from reading. "Teaching" spelling does no good unless a child
>> reads, writes, and is constantly exposed to written language in all
>> aspects of life, not just school.
>> That being said, some people are just "spelling blind". It's just not
>> something they get.
>> If your sister wants her grandchild to be a good speller, she needs to
>> make sure he's a good reader.
>>
>Good reader doesn't necessarily equal good speller. I was an avid reader, I
>read Lord of the Rings at 6yo. But I still can't spell. At times I can't
>even get close enough to the word for the spell check to recognise it. I've
>been asking #1 (age now 9yo) to spell words for me for a good couple of
>years.

I agree - I never learned to spell until I learned to type and had to
look at all the letters in the word. (That's why I could never get
into all those Russian novels that people want you to read - I
couldn't tell the characters apart.)

>Dh never has a problem on spelling, and never did. He just seems to do it
>naturally, and sometimes thinks I'm messing around when I can't spell a word
>because it seems so obvious to him.
>
>#1's been having spelling tests in school since she was year 1 (age 5-6) but
>they tend not to corrrect spellings in the writing as they're concentrating
>on the "flow" rather than the spellings. This hinders her because she likes
>to be correct, so she'll only write words she's confident of spelling
>correctly.
>
>The non-English speaker suggestion sounds like an excuse rather than the
>real reason to me.
>Debbie
>
My sister has always spelled well which is perhaps why she thinks it
is important.

Would your daughter be more adventurous with what she wrote if her
spelling was corrected by the teacher, or would she be even more
cautious - not wanting to mess up?

I have myself taught writing without the correcting of the spelling in
order to facilitate the child actually getting over the barrier or
putting words on paper. I used to make my sixth graders spend 10
minutes a day writing. Anything they wanted to write, but they had to
write. I didn't grade the content or the spelling. If they wanted
to, they could even copy out of a textbook. Just so they did 10
minutes of writing.

I also gave them a quarter project where they had to write at least a
paragraph telling everything that they saw from a specific location
three times a week. No time limit or space limit. They just had to
sit in a location they picked and described it in a paragraph.
From: Welches on

"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a1btg59gpf0iinjnnhmrcs3pu1k9tndsdj(a)4ax.com...
> "Welches" <debbie.welchNO(a)SPAMntlworldPLEASE.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"dejablues" <dejablues(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:hei8fi$no2$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> "Rosalie B." <gmbeasley(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>> news:rucog55rfo5v8n07bjh7vu92gfgrn6cgl8(a)4ax.com...
>>>> My niece is considering sending her child to private school because
>>>> they don't have spelling in the her son's class. The reason given is
>>>> that some people in the class are not native English speakers. Does
>>>> that reason make sense to anyone? It doesn't to me.
>>>
>>> You did not say how old this child is. Elementary age, I guess, because
>>> spelling here is not taught here after 5th or 6th grade. They get points
>>> off a writing assignment if they misspell words, but it is not actively
>>> taught, and children have been using spellcheck for a long time by that
>>> point anyway.
>>>
>>> Proper spelling is something you get from reading and writing a lot.
>>> Mostly from reading. "Teaching" spelling does no good unless a child
>>> reads, writes, and is constantly exposed to written language in all
>>> aspects of life, not just school.
>>> That being said, some people are just "spelling blind". It's just not
>>> something they get.
>>> If your sister wants her grandchild to be a good speller, she needs to
>>> make sure he's a good reader.
>>>
>>Good reader doesn't necessarily equal good speller. I was an avid reader,
>>I
>>read Lord of the Rings at 6yo. But I still can't spell. At times I can't
>>even get close enough to the word for the spell check to recognise it.
>>I've
>>been asking #1 (age now 9yo) to spell words for me for a good couple of
>>years.
>
> I agree - I never learned to spell until I learned to type and had to
> look at all the letters in the word. (That's why I could never get
> into all those Russian novels that people want you to read - I
> couldn't tell the characters apart.)
>
>>Dh never has a problem on spelling, and never did. He just seems to do it
>>naturally, and sometimes thinks I'm messing around when I can't spell a
>>word
>>because it seems so obvious to him.
>>
>>#1's been having spelling tests in school since she was year 1 (age 5-6)
>>but
>>they tend not to corrrect spellings in the writing as they're
>>concentrating
>>on the "flow" rather than the spellings. This hinders her because she
>>likes
>>to be correct, so she'll only write words she's confident of spelling
>>correctly.
>>
>>The non-English speaker suggestion sounds like an excuse rather than the
>>real reason to me.
>>Debbie
>>
> My sister has always spelled well which is perhaps why she thinks it
> is important.
>
> Would your daughter be more adventurous with what she wrote if her
> spelling was corrected by the teacher, or would she be even more
> cautious - not wanting to mess up?
>
Yes she would be more adventurous, which sounds strange, but she likes to
know the right way.
Even better would be if a teacher was prepared to tell her or let her use a
dictionary. What I'd have liked was for them to say "how do you think", let
her try, and then give her the right spelling or let her look it up. What
would actually happen was they'd say that she had to work it out for
herself. She'd try, decide it wasn't right, rub it out and use a simpler
word.
Because she was a strong reader, she would know it was wrong, so being a
strong reader actually handicapped her rather than helping her!
#2 otoh is much better to be left to try, and, although she's as good a
reader isn't bothered so much if it looks wrong. Just she's a bit lazy and
would rather not write at all :-) That method works for her.

I have had problems with both girls on the standard of reading books they've
bought home. When they're reading "Famous Five" standard books at home it's
somewhat boring for them to be reading "The cat sat on the mat" in a group
of children.
#2's reading book at the start of the year she could read 2 1/2 years ago,
simply because the school has them reading in groups so it goes on the
slowest person. Personally I feel it is a complete waste of her time which
would be better spent on other things. Unfortunately pointing this out has
made her present teacher clearly think I'm being pushy, which is irritating
because I'm not pushing for her to be stretched, just kept interested.
Debbie


> I have myself taught writing without the correcting of the spelling in
> order to facilitate the child actually getting over the barrier or
> putting words on paper. I used to make my sixth graders spend 10
> minutes a day writing. Anything they wanted to write, but they had to
> write. I didn't grade the content or the spelling. If they wanted
> to, they could even copy out of a textbook. Just so they did 10
> minutes of writing.
>
> I also gave them a quarter project where they had to write at least a
> paragraph telling everything that they saw from a specific location
> three times a week. No time limit or space limit. They just had to
> sit in a location they picked and described it in a paragraph.


From: Rosalie B. on
"Welches" <debbie.welchNO(a)SPAMntlworldPLEASE.com> wrote:

>
>"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:a1btg59gpf0iinjnnhmrcs3pu1k9tndsdj(a)4ax.com...

>> My sister has always spelled well which is perhaps why she thinks it
>> is important.
>>
>> Would your daughter be more adventurous with what she wrote if her
>> spelling was corrected by the teacher, or would she be even more
>> cautious - not wanting to mess up?
>>
>Yes she would be more adventurous, which sounds strange, but she likes to
>know the right way.

That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought that would be the case.

>Even better would be if a teacher was prepared to tell her or let her use a
>dictionary. What I'd have liked was for them to say "how do you think", let
>her try, and then give her the right spelling or let her look it up. What
>would actually happen was they'd say that she had to work it out for
>herself. She'd try, decide it wasn't right, rub it out and use a simpler
>word.
>Because she was a strong reader, she would know it was wrong, so being a
>strong reader actually handicapped her rather than helping her!
>#2 otoh is much better to be left to try, and, although she's as good a
>reader isn't bothered so much if it looks wrong. Just she's a bit lazy and
>would rather not write at all :-) That method works for her.
>
>I have had problems with both girls on the standard of reading books they've
>bought home. When they're reading "Famous Five" standard books at home it's
>somewhat boring for them to be reading "The cat sat on the mat" in a group
>of children.
>#2's reading book at the start of the year she could read 2 1/2 years ago,
>simply because the school has them reading in groups so it goes on the
>slowest person. Personally I feel it is a complete waste of her time which
>would be better spent on other things. Unfortunately pointing this out has
>made her present teacher clearly think I'm being pushy, which is irritating
>because I'm not pushing for her to be stretched, just kept interested.
>Debbie
I come from a long line of pushy mothers. That's a good thing.

In one middle school I taught in, the whole school was split up into
groups for reading first period in the morning. So they could be much
more flexible in the grouping.

But I feel your pain. Apparently when I was in kindergarten my
elementary school was judged by someone to be insufficiently
disciplined or structured or something. And so they switched
principals. Among other things, that meant that when I went with my
first grade class to the school library, I was not allowed to touch
(let alone take out) books that were above the first grade level. We
had reading time every day and I had to read whatever book I took
during that time. Since I was reading Kipling on my own at that point
(not novels, but the Just So Stories), this was agony. I would finish
the book before the library period was over and then for the next four
days I had to sit and re-read it.

I don't know if they changed this by the time my sister got there.
I'll have to ask her. She was 2.5 years younger and by the time she
got to kindergarten I had taught her to read. She could be left to
read to the class while the kindergarten teacher took a break.