From: Mark Probert on
On Mar 20, 8:51 pm, Mike <M...(a)localhost.localdomain> wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
> > On Mar 18, 9:51 pm, Mike <M...(a)localhost.localdomain> wrote:
> >> Mark Probert wrote:
> >>>>> Ms. WRONG has a serious reading comprehension problem. This yarn is
> >>>>> taken from a Readers Digest article by Arthur Allen, who is certainly
> >>>>> diametrically the opposite of Mr. Allen on the issue of vaccines. Mr.
> >>>>> Allen quotes:
> >>>>> "We have reached out to media outlets to try to get them to not give
> >>>>> the views of these people equal weight in their reporting to what
> >>>>> science has shown and continues to show about the safety of vaccines."
> >>>>>http://www.rd.com/health-slideshows/h1n1-the-report-card/article17474...
> >>>>> These is NO call for censorship or anything else Katie WRONG whines
> >>>>> about. Madame Secretary is correctly pointing out that the views of
> >>>>> the anti-vaxxers arenot supported by sceince or facts. Thus, they
> >>>>> should not be given equal weight.
> >>>> No Sir, this IS censorship when it comes from the government.
> >>>> Saying "they should not be given equal weight" is one thing,
> >>>> saying the same thing from a position of a Cabinet Secretary is quite
> >>>> different. Reaching out to the media and asking them for preferential
> >>>> treatment for yourself and limiting opposing views IS censorship.
> >>>> Even if you believe that you are censoring the bad guys (and even if
> >>>> they were bad guys) it is censorship.
> >>>>> I see nothing wrong with that. It is akin to having to give equal
> >>>>> weight to flat-earthers, moon-landing hoaxers, Holocausr deniers and
> >>>>> 9/11 truthers.
> >>>> If a NASA official would ask the media not to give equal weight to
> >>>> moon-landing hoaxers it would indicate that NASA has a credibility
> >>>> problem.
> >>> What you are doing is censoring the knowledgeable experts, because you
> >>> do not agree with them, simply because they work for the government.
> >> No, Sir, I am not calling for censorship. You do. The government will
> >> never have any difficulty expressing its points. But when it wants to
> >> create such hurdles to those with opposing views - this is called
> >> censorship.
>
> >> By the way, your last sentence can be turned on you: what you are doing
> >> is censoring the knowledgeable experts, because you do not agree with
> >> them.-
>
> > Censorship is the control of what people read, write, see, or hear.
> > The key word being CONTROL. Regardless of her position in government,
> > she has the absolute right to express herself. Period. End of
> > discussion. What you seem to be proposing is that because she is in
> > government, she cannot fully express herself.
>
> Expressing herself is quite different from asking the media not to let
> others to express themselves - that is to control what people read, see
> and hear. This is censorship. End of discussion.
>
>
>
> > As for agreeing with experts, you are quite right. I agree with the
> > experts who have facts, science and logic. The anti-vac "experts" have
> > none of these factors. Like moon landing hoaxers.-

No, it isn;t, but I do understand why anti-vaxxers want it to be. Anti-
vaxxers NEED conspiracies evil gubmint employees, etc. to prove what
they cannot prove with science.

From: Mike on
Happy Oyster wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:42:19 -0400, Mike <Mike(a)localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>
>> Bob Officer wrote:
>>> There is no coupling mechanism between Autism and Vaccines.
>> There is no coupling mechanism between autism and anything,
>> for that matter. The mechanisms are not known - yet.
>
> That is a damned lie.
>
> .
If you know the mechanism please share it with humanity,
there may be a Nobel prize waiting for you.
From: Mike on
Bob Officer wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:42:19 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Mike
> <Mike(a)localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>
>> Bob Officer wrote:
>>> There is no coupling mechanism between Autism and Vaccines.
>> There is no coupling mechanism between autism and anything,
>> for that matter. The mechanisms are not known - yet.
>
> We see, there is no coupling mechanism for vaccines.
>
> If you think there is, I would also bet you believe in the invisible
> sky pixie and astrology too.
>
>
We see, there is no known coupling mechanism with anything.
Apparently, autism does not exist.
From: Mike on
Mark Probert wrote:
> On Mar 20, 8:59 pm, Mike <M...(a)localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>> On Mar 18, 9:42 pm, Mike <M...(a)localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>>>> Bob Officer wrote:
>>>>> There is no coupling mechanism between Autism and Vaccines.
>>>> There is no coupling mechanism between autism and anything,
>>>> for that matter. The mechanisms are not known -
>>> There are very substantial studies that show there is a strong genetic
>>> component. Whether it is all genetic, or there are other factors, is
>>> unknown.
>> It is known that it is NOT all genetic. There are instances
>> of identical twins, with only one having the disease.
>
> If one assumes that all cases are caused by the same mechanism. There
> is NO reason to make that assumption, since there is such a variety of
> symptom complexes.

How does it disprove that it is NOT all genetic?
It is possible there are several mechanisms, and they involve
interaction of genetic and environmental factors.

>
>> The word "strong" here is meaningless because there is no number
>> attached to it. Without that it is pure PR. The mechanism is unknown.
>
> No, it isn't. There have been several genes associated with autism.
>

There are genes associated with lung cancer. So, let's say there is
strong genetic component and anti-tobacco liars invent
non-existing connections.

>> Phenylketonuria appears to be purely genetic. But it isn't.
>> The mechanism is known. It is lactose intolerance,
>
> Phenylketonuria Definition:
> Phenylketonuria (PKU) is a genetic disorder that is characterized by
> an inability of the body to utilize the essential amino acid,
> phenylalanine. Amino acids are the building blocks for body proteins.
> 'Essential' amino acids can only be obtained from the food we eat as
> our body does not normally produce them. In 'classic PKU', the enzyme
> that breaks down phenylalanine phenylalanine hydroxylase, is
> completely or nearly completely deficient. This enzyme normally
> converts phenylalanine to another amino acid, tyrosine. Without this
> enzyme, phenylalanine and its' breakdown chemicals from other enzyme
> routes, accumulate in the blood and body tissues. Although the term
> 'hyperphenylalaninemia' strictly means elevated blood phenylalanine,
> it is usually used to describe a group of disorders other than classic
> PKU. These other disorders may be caused by a partial deficiency of
> the phenylalanine breakdown enzyme or the lack of another enzyme
> important to the processing of this amino acid. A normal blood
> phenylalanine level is about 1 mg/dl. In classic PKU, levels may range
> from 6 to 80mg/dl, but are usually greater than 30mg/dl. Levels are
> somewhat less in the other disorders of hyperphenylalaninemia.
> Chronically high levels of phenylalanine and some of its breakdown
> products can cause significant brain problems. Classic PKU is the most
> common cause of high levels of phenylalanine in the blood and will be
> the primary focus of this topic sheet.
>
> So much for your medical knowledge. No mention of lactose
> intolerance.
>

You correction (phenylalanine intolerance, not just lactose intolerance)
does not change the point. PKU has a strong genetic component, there
cannot be anything stronger, it comes with a specific gene. Nevertheless
mental retardation is triggered by an environmental factor. Usually this
factor is human milk.

> and subsequent
>> mental retardation is the result of lactose exposure.
>> It is preventable.
>
From: dr_jeff on
Mark Probert wrote:
> On Mar 20, 8:59 pm, Mike <M...(a)localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>> On Mar 18, 9:42 pm, Mike <M...(a)localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>>>> Bob Officer wrote:
>>>>> There is no coupling mechanism between Autism and Vaccines.
>>>> There is no coupling mechanism between autism and anything,
>>>> for that matter. The mechanisms are not known -
>>> There are very substantial studies that show there is a strong genetic
>>> component. Whether it is all genetic, or there are other factors, is
>>> unknown.
>> It is known that it is NOT all genetic. There are instances
>> of identical twins, with only one having the disease.
>
> If one assumes that all cases are caused by the same mechanism. There
> is NO reason to make that assumption, since there is such a variety of
> symptom complexes.

The same common pathway is probably involved, though. There are common
areas of the brain affected, IIRC, that all develop about the same time.
And there are common cellular changes.

By pathway, I mean there are probably different mechanisms that all
affect the same developmental steps.

>> The word "strong" here is meaningless because there is no number
>> attached to it. Without that it is pure PR. The mechanism is unknown.
>
> No, it isn't. There have been several genes associated with autism.
>
>> Phenylketonuria appears to be purely genetic. But it isn't.
>> The mechanism is known. It is lactose intolerance,
>
> Phenylketonuria Definition:
> Phenylketonuria (PKU) is a genetic disorder that is characterized by
> an inability of the body to utilize the essential amino acid,
> phenylalanine. Amino acids are the building blocks for body proteins.
> 'Essential' amino acids can only be obtained from the food we eat as
> our body does not normally produce them. In 'classic PKU', the enzyme
> that breaks down phenylalanine phenylalanine hydroxylase, is
> completely or nearly completely deficient. This enzyme normally
> converts phenylalanine to another amino acid, tyrosine. Without this
> enzyme, phenylalanine and its' breakdown chemicals from other enzyme
> routes, accumulate in the blood and body tissues. Although the term
> 'hyperphenylalaninemia' strictly means elevated blood phenylalanine,
> it is usually used to describe a group of disorders other than classic
> PKU. These other disorders may be caused by a partial deficiency of
> the phenylalanine breakdown enzyme or the lack of another enzyme
> important to the processing of this amino acid. A normal blood
> phenylalanine level is about 1 mg/dl. In classic PKU, levels may range
> from 6 to 80mg/dl, but are usually greater than 30mg/dl. Levels are
> somewhat less in the other disorders of hyperphenylalaninemia.
> Chronically high levels of phenylalanine and some of its breakdown
> products can cause significant brain problems. Classic PKU is the most
> common cause of high levels of phenylalanine in the blood and will be
> the primary focus of this topic sheet.
>
> So much for your medical knowledge. No mention of lactose
> intolerance.

For PKU, there is evidence of more than one gene involved from the above
(there are classic and other types).

For lactose tolerance, there are different mutations that all cause the
lactose gene to be expressed much later than normal. That's why many
people can tolerate lactose into adulthood.

BTW, lactose intolerance is the normal case, because, before man learned
to drink cow and other mammal milk (excluding humans), the lactose gene
turned off at a few years of age.

> and subsequent
>> mental retardation is the result of lactose exposure.
>> It is preventable.

Autism has nothing to do with lactose tolerance or lack thereof. Lactose
intolerance will cause problems with diarrhea, gas and bloating. In
fact, there is no good evidence that milk, lactose or the digestive
system have anything to do autism. The studies that suggest that autism
has something to do with the digestive tract were all done by proponents
of the conjecture that autism is caused by vaccine. However, when
replicated by reputable scientists, the results were not replicated
(i.e., the reputable scientists found no correlation between vaccines,
the digestive tract and autism).

Jeff