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From: toypup on

"Ericka Kammerer" <eek(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9qydndz_3bMnX-vYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d(a)comcast.com...
> I'm wondering...toypup, do you find any
> help in the section of the book on extinction of
> negative reinforcement? It seems like maybe he's
> working *that* angle as well, and maybe those
> techniques will help somewhat.

I remember reading it, but I don't remember what it said. I'll have to go
back and read again.


From: toypup on

"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:vdidn2t4plq09jopi3gp57iv0dj486pldt(a)4ax.com...
> What would happen if you "totally forgot" (on purpose) to give him his
> meds? Or said that you just were going to give up, it was too hard to
> do? I mean what would happen to him if he didn't get them? Does he
> know that?

There is no way I would not give DS his meds. We have a hard enough time
keeping his asthma under control as it is. Once he's sick, it takes a full
month to recover. He's in and out of the doctor's office at least once or
twice a week with phone calls in between. We have to go to urgent care. He
ends up with pneumonia. I miss tons of work. If I wasn't in a union, I'd
be fired by now.


From: toypup on

"Ericka Kammerer" <eek(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:98udne0liao0UevYnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d(a)comcast.com...

> you to do things he fears doing. It is often the case that
> the kids who do this the most persistently are the kids who
> are very bright and aren't confident in their ability to
> do things on their own, so they get others to do for them
> (at least with some things).

Yes, he is very bright. Top of his class ATM. Socially, he's not so good.

They have to expend a lot
> of energy maintaining their ability to manipulate, sometimes
> even in areas where they don't really care all that much
> about the particular behavior, because they *MUST* at all
> costs preserve their ability to manipulate you. When the
> chips are down and it *is* something they fear, they have
> to know they can successfully manipulate you to avoid doing
> it. He sounds like a classic perfectionist, and perfectionists
> are often that way because they fear not being good enough.

Yes, he's a perfectionist. He refuses to do things he thinks he can't do
perfectly. For a long time, he would not do Play-Doh or color because of
that. He wanted to do it, but he didn't think he could do it perfectly.

> Better not to do something than to do it less than perfectly.
> So, if you change and send him to his room, will
> he still be able to successfully avoid doing what he needs
> to do? He's worked the SPR around so that he still doesn't
> have to do something. Will he just do the same with being
> sent to his room? If so, it's not going to get to the
> root of the issue.

I don't know. He may eventually figure out a way to manipulate. I have to
work on this some more.


From: Rosalie B. on
"toypup" <toypup(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
>"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:vdidn2t4plq09jopi3gp57iv0dj486pldt(a)4ax.com...
>> What would happen if you "totally forgot" (on purpose) to give him his
>> meds? Or said that you just were going to give up, it was too hard to
>> do? I mean what would happen to him if he didn't get them? Does he
>> know that?
>
>There is no way I would not give DS his meds. We have a hard enough time
>keeping his asthma under control as it is. Once he's sick, it takes a full
>month to recover. He's in and out of the doctor's office at least once or
>twice a week with phone calls in between. We have to go to urgent care. He
>ends up with pneumonia. I miss tons of work. If I wasn't in a union, I'd
>be fired by now.
>
OK - does he know this? Does he recognize that if he doesn't get his
meds he will go to the hospital?

What happened that he stopped taking the responsibility for doing the
inhalers? Can you ask him why he stopped?

Could you just say - "It makes me very upset to know that you might
get really sick and have to go to the hospital because I haven't been
able to give you your medicine"?

I think someone else in the discussion might have put their finger on
it - laughing and acting silly might be the result of nervousness or
tension. My dad was that way.

FWIW, I had asthma as a kid, and it was before inhalers or any of the
treatments they have now. I wasn't so bad as his is apparently, but
my sister used to complain that my wheezing kept her awake at night.
I had injections 3x a week, and took pyrobenzamine (sp?) which in
those days, I could carry with me to school. I learned to swallow
upside down so I could take it at the water fountain in the hall.

From: toypup on

"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:plpen2p8tth6evp6p5ov5bi7o9en3sc1pp(a)4ax.com...
> "toypup" <toypup(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Rosalie B." <gmbeasley(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:vdidn2t4plq09jopi3gp57iv0dj486pldt(a)4ax.com...
>>> What would happen if you "totally forgot" (on purpose) to give him his
>>> meds? Or said that you just were going to give up, it was too hard to
>>> do? I mean what would happen to him if he didn't get them? Does he
>>> know that?
>>
>>There is no way I would not give DS his meds. We have a hard enough time
>>keeping his asthma under control as it is. Once he's sick, it takes a
>>full
>>month to recover. He's in and out of the doctor's office at least once or
>>twice a week with phone calls in between. We have to go to urgent care.
>>He
>>ends up with pneumonia. I miss tons of work. If I wasn't in a union, I'd
>>be fired by now.
>>
> OK - does he know this? Does he recognize that if he doesn't get his
> meds he will go to the hospital?

Actually, he is sick so frequently that it is normal for him. Unless he's
really, really sick, he doesn't show it. He's had pneumonia and not shown
it. His eardrum burst and I didn't know he had an ear infection. He could
be wheezing up a storm, retracting and breathing faster than usual, at which
point he would be less talkative, but only the doctor who knows him could
spot it. Someone else may not pick it up. He's never been hospitalized for
asthma, so it isn't that bad (though maybe it is, because we sometimes treat
every two hours, which some doctors would hospitalize for), but it is bad in
terms of the length of time he is sick and the fact that it turns into
pneumonia so frequently. I don't think he thinks it's anything out of the
ordinary, though.

>
> What happened that he stopped taking the responsibility for doing the
> inhalers? Can you ask him why he stopped?

He's not very good verbally. I think Ericka might be on to some of it. I
think he just got tired of doing it.



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