From: Donna Metler on

"Chris" <chrissypete2(a)aol.com> wrote in message
news:1193110315.070050.182410(a)z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> It's disappointing these days that teachers will actually send out an
> e-mail to all parents of students that reads something like "Send in
> pics for our sports board, and oh by the way, I need you to speak to
> your children about how noisy they have been lately in the classroom
> and while walking in the halls. I'm thinking I'll need to send home
> blue-notes if it doesn't improve."
>
> Blue notes? Go ahead. At least the kids will see you mean business.
> I'm wondering what ever happened to the teacher that switched off the
> lights when the class got loud that gave that "look" that put the fear
> of God into ya who made you put your head down on your desk until
> order could be restored while you thought about what it was she
> wanted, or the teacher who turned her class around from walking down
> the hall to gym class, lunch, or recess, because they did not do it
> the "right" way (the right way being in an orderly and quiet fashion),
> or the teacher who singled out the unruly kids by placing them in the
> front or back of the room. kwim?
>
In some schools, the teacher who does this will be reprimanded for
"inappropriate use of time", or told that they're being emotionally abusive
because they've singled out a child for behavior-because, DYK, the kids are
just supposed to DO these things, not be TAUGHT them. Then the principal
wonders why behaviors escalate.

As a teacher, I had three principals who were supportive on discipline and
allowed "Old School" methods (not including spanking), and two who were
touchy, feely, discipline through love (and apparently never tell a child
they were doing anything wrong) people.

Guess which two schools had situations so bad the police had to be called
in-remembering that the OLDEST child in these schools was about 13!





From: Penny Gaines on
enigma wrote:
[snip]

> he was all gung-ho about learning guitar until his teacher in
> kindy told him he was "holding it wrong" & squashed all
> interest (so i have this child size guitar now... grrrrrr)
> he's also really good at pool... ;)
[snip]

We were told not to start guitar until the kid was at least 8yo:
maybe he can have another go.

FWIW, our teacher teaches "rock" style rather then "classical" which
means that "holding it wrong" is not a consideration. On the one hand
I feel they ought to learn the "right way", but I have also been told
that that requires having a certain figure - things like long fingers
etc.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three
From: Donna Metler on


"Penny Gaines" <penny(a)gaines.net> wrote in message
news:kcb1v4-rnm.ln1(a)gaines.biz...
> enigma wrote:
> [snip]
>
>> he was all gung-ho about learning guitar until his teacher in kindy told
>> him he was "holding it wrong" & squashed all interest (so i have this
>> child size guitar now... grrrrrr)
>> he's also really good at pool... ;)
> [snip]
>
> We were told not to start guitar until the kid was at least 8yo:
> maybe he can have another go.
>
> FWIW, our teacher teaches "rock" style rather then "classical" which
> means that "holding it wrong" is not a consideration. On the one hand
> I feel they ought to learn the "right way", but I have also been told that
> that requires having a certain figure - things like long fingers
> etc.

Uh, "holding it wrong" is still a concern in Rock as well-because some of
those chords will be completely unreachable if your grip isn't right. It's
simply that most Rock musicians learn "right" via trial and error-and often
pay for it years later with arthritis and similar problems. Grip, posture,
and the like need to be taught correctly, on any instrument, from the
get-go, because otherwise it causes more problems later. Almost every
instrument, including voice, has it's own set of occupational injuries which
come with it, and almost all of these can be prevented or greatly reduced
via proper instruction. On guitar, as on any stringed instrument, if your
hand is too small to play the chords with a correct grip, the instrument is
too big and you need a different instrument. As an adult, I play a 3/4 size
guitar and violin because that's what the appropriate sizing for my hands
and arms is.

If a single correction "squashes a child's interest" than a child is NOT
ready to play a musical instrument-and at 5, few children are. Music is a
constant stream of corrections and changes, and it's really impossible to
play an instrument to any proficency without becoming a perfectionist and
internalizing that constant correction yourself, and instrumental music
requires a lot of correction and changes before you start to really have
"fun" beyond the "Ooh, look! I can make noise" stage. Most children simply
don't have the physiological skills to play most instruments "correctly"
before age 7-8 (and even programs which start earlier than this age tend to
focus on group skills and fundamentals, with a major jump in skills
happening about at this age) and many don't have the emotional stamina to
deal with the constant changing and correction, both self and other
motivated, until they get to this age.






From: enigma on
"Donna Metler" <dmmetler(a)xxxcomcast.net> wrote in
news:RdWdnV7SDrl7kYPanZ2dnUVZ_uGknZ2d(a)comcast.com:

> If a single correction "squashes a child's interest" than a
> child is NOT ready to play a musical instrument-and at 5,
> few children are. Music is a constant stream of corrections
> and changes, and it's really impossible to play an
> instrument to any proficency without becoming a
> perfectionist and internalizing that constant correction
> yourself, and instrumental music requires a lot of
> correction and changes before you start to really have
> "fun" beyond the "Ooh, look! I can make noise" stage. Most
> children simply don't have the physiological skills to play
> most instruments "correctly" before age 7-8 (and even
> programs which start earlier than this age tend to focus on
> group skills and fundamentals, with a major jump in skills
> happening about at this age) and many don't have the
> emotional stamina to deal with the constant changing and
> correction, both self and other motivated, until they get
> to this age.

in this case it wasn't a single correction squashing his
interest, it was an ongoing issue i had with the teacher (i
play guitar. he was holding it just fine. he wanted to fiddle
with the tuning pegs, but that's typical for a 5 year old. i
don't feel i can *teach* guitar, as i learned to play notes,
not chords)
at any rate, he's currently interested in recorder/penny
whistle & bodhran, which fits his size better, and he can't
fiddle with the tuning ;)
he's very self-critical & perfectionist.
lee
From: Beliavsky on
On Oct 22, 11:31 pm, Chris <chrissype...(a)aol.com> wrote:
> It's disappointing these days that teachers will actually send out an
> e-mail to all parents of students that reads something like "Send in
> pics for our sports board, and oh by the way, I need you to speak to
> your children about how noisy they have been lately in the classroom
> and while walking in the halls. I'm thinking I'll need to send home
> blue-notes if it doesn't improve."
>
> Blue notes? Go ahead. At least the kids will see you mean business.
> I'm wondering what ever happened to the teacher that switched off the
> lights when the class got loud that gave that "look" that put the fear
> of God into ya who made you put your head down on your desk until
> order could be restored while you thought about what it was she
> wanted, or the teacher who turned her class around from walking down
> the hall to gym class, lunch, or recess, because they did not do it
> the "right" way (the right way being in an orderly and quiet fashion),
> or the teacher who singled out the unruly kids by placing them in the
> front or back of the room. kwim?

The methods you describe will work if students respect authority, in
this case their teacher, but many students do not.

There's an essay

The Inmates Are Running the Asylum
by Tina Blue
June 10, 2003
http://www.teacherblue.homestead.com/inmates.html

describing one teacher's experiences with disrespectful students.

Students were so vicious to one white female teacher that the school
district settled her suit over a racially hostile workplace for $200
K, as discussed in the column

The black and white of 'ho' culture
by Kathleen Parker
http://jewishworldreview.com/kathleen/parker051607.php3 .