From: Betsy on
cjra wrote:
>
> I'm trying to do more one on one stuff with her, but it'll be hard
> during the week when I'm on my own. I keep reminding her I love her,
> try to be positive with her and focus on re-direction when she does
> stuff. I hope this means that it'll pass though.

Have you thought of getting a postpartum doula for a couple hours a day?
It might help with giving you the time to get nursing on track. Some
postpartum doulas are even qualified to offer nursing help suggestions.

I found having a postpartum doula helpful after my last birth. She
worked on household tasks and involved the kids while I was able to
concentrate on my baby. It was good for the kids, my baby, and me.
While she had a policy of not cooking, she could serve food that was
already there, keep kids from destroying the house or each other and
fold all the laundry.

In my area there often are doulas in training who are quite inexpensive
because they are trying to get enough experience to become certified.

--Betsy
From: dejablues on
cjra wrote:
> On Dec 26, 9:28 am, "Welches" <debbie.welc...(a)SPAMntlworldPLEASE.com>
> wrote:
>> "cjra" <cjroh...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:d427e2ee-b6d9-48e4-a200-b52074962f8f(a)g26g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Last few months I came on here all I found was spam, but if there's
>>> any one still out there, I'd love some advice! You all have been so
>>> helpful in the past.
>>
>>> My 3.5 yr old is a "Spirited Child." Definitely. However, her
>>> spiritedness has 99% of the time been of a happy sort. Her default
>>> demeanor was positive, happy. She's just a little hurricane of
>>> activity. She'd been far from perfect and had tested her limits
>>> often, but nothing we couldn't handle with some effort and patience.
>>
>>> That all changed about a month ago. It was rather sudden one day
>>> which makes me worried. It started off with weepiness. She wasn't
>>> throwing tantrums, but just started to cry about everything - very
>>> much not like her. In the past if she cried, it was because she was
>>> really hurt. Then it progressed to major tantrums. We'd had
>>> tantrums in the past, but nothing like this - very aggressive with
>>> me and DH, hitting, pulling, kicking, screaming, totally in
>>> hysterics.
>>
>>> I'd lean towards it being a phase, it's just that it was rather
>>> sudden. Her behaviour mirrors that of a friend's kid, whom she
>>> spends a lot of time with. And at first I thought she was just
>>> imitating her, but this has gone on too long for that, and she
>>> hasn't spent as much time with her since this started.
>>
>>> Now, there IS a new baby in the house as of 2 weeks ago, but this
>>> behaviour started a few weeks before that. She's otherwise thrilled
>>> with her baby brother, loves him to pieces and always wants to be
>>> with him. She's had another major change with her daycare closing -
>>> she was at an in home daycare for the past 2.5 years and loved
>>> "Nana." As of last week Nana retired....but then DD has talked for
>>> the past few weeks about starting school, so hasn't seemed too
>>> disappointed about not seeing Nana anymore. And again, this
>>> behaviour started weeks before she even knew about Nana retiring. I
>>> do think Nana was a bit stressed and scolded her a bit more in the
>>> final weeks (DD is still having potty training issues, but was
>>> doing well). And DH has been super stressed for the past month or
>>> two about work. And of course new baby stress (baby is not gaining
>>> well and not latching so I'm nursing every 2 hour for 30 minutes).
>>
>>> I'm trying to spend as much time with her as possible - fortunately
>>> this baby sleeps (unlike her), so I spend all that time he's asleep
>>> focusing on her. But this behaviour is just constant. No more my
>>> laughing singing dancing child, in her place is a mean, unhappy,
>>> aggressive, screaming child. I feel so bad *for* her as well as for
>>> us, because this is so difficult.
>>
>>> I'm at a total loss about what to do.
>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> I would put it down to the new baby. Not that you can ignore the
>> behaviour, but she will have known baby was coming. #2 never used
>> her buggy until I was about 7 months with #3 when she anounced "that
>> baby isn't using my buggy". She'd seemed really excited about the
>> new baby, and I think that was the only negative expressed to me,
>> but she hated going in the buggy, so it completely took me by
>> surprise.
>> If baby's crying and you're doing something with #1 then say "no, #2
>> you'll have to wait, I'm busy with #1" so that #1 knows they get you
>> when they need to.
>> If you're all stressed then she's going to pick that up too.
>> Agree with pick your battles. I remember ignoring #1 drawing on the
>> wall when #2 was having a midwife check. Afterwards me and her
>> cleaned it up with baby wipes, and afterwards I said "what a pity
>> cleaning it took that time when we could have done something fun".
>> She never did it again, and I didn't have to tell her off or be
>> cross with her.
>> I go for one warning, then act. If it's dangerous, then straight to
>> naughty step/room/ whereever away. If she's having a tantrum then
>> either pick up and remove if you can, or go away and leave her. Give
>> her a cuddle afterwards. Maybe she needs sometimes to go out with
>> you on your own. Leave the baby for 40minutes and have a drink at a
>> cafe, or go and buy her a new dress.
>> I'm not sure how talking about it helps. A child may say "I
>> understand why" when they're calm and peaceful, but when the flash
>> point comes up they won't really remember it.
>> (((hugs)))
>> Debbie
>
> Yeah, It's definitely the baby.....today she told DH (after asking to
> hold the baby) "I don't like my baby brother. I want him to go back in
> mommy's tummy." Ouch. Breaks my heart. By comparison, the weekend
> before he was born, she helped DH put the bassinet together and said
> "This is going to be the best baby ever!" and the next morning ran
> into the room asking "where's the baby?" So I had been more
> hopeful....She's also trying to lay in his bassinet (funny because she
> never slept in it herself when she was a baby) and sit in his
> maxicosi....She still smothers him with kisses and hugs.
>
> I'm trying to do more one on one stuff with her, but it'll be hard
> during the week when I'm on my own. I keep reminding her I love her,
> try to be positive with her and focus on re-direction when she does
> stuff. I hope this means that it'll pass though.

Yes, it will pass. It's not a bad thing for a first-born child to realize
that they aren't the only star in the universe and that from now on they
will have to share mom and dad's attention, and yes, there won't always be
enough attention to go around. That's the trade-off parents choose and
children must accept when more children are added to the family.
You know that having a sibling is beneficial to her. Don't feel guilty or
try to overcompensate in alleviating her bad feelings. The more you do, the
more you reinforce the idea that the baby is an annoyance and an interloper.
If she wants to help with the baby, let her, but do not force her.
I'm the oldest of four, born within four years. My mother did not have time
to worry about what we all thought about our younger siblings. We're all
very close to this day. My children are 20, 16, and 12, and they are also
close to each other and best friends..not always easy, but I credit my mom
with making me realize that sibling relationships are more important than
parent-child relationships.


From: cjra on
On Dec 28, 9:47 pm, "dejablues" <dejabl...(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> cjra wrote:
> > On Dec 26, 9:28 am, "Welches" <debbie.welc...(a)SPAMntlworldPLEASE.com>
> > wrote:
> >> "cjra" <cjroh...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:d427e2ee-b6d9-48e4-a200-b52074962f8f(a)g26g2000yqe.googlegroups.com....
>
> >>> Last few months I came on here all I found was spam, but if there's
> >>> any one still out there, I'd love some advice! You all have been so
> >>> helpful in the past.
>
> >>> My 3.5 yr old is a "Spirited Child." Definitely. However, her
> >>> spiritedness has 99% of the time been of a happy sort. Her default
> >>> demeanor was positive, happy. She's just a little hurricane of
> >>> activity. She'd been far from perfect and had tested her limits
> >>> often, but nothing we couldn't handle with some effort and patience.
>
> >>> That all changed about a month ago. It was rather sudden one day
> >>> which makes me worried. It started off with weepiness. She wasn't
> >>> throwing tantrums, but just started to cry about everything - very
> >>> much not like her. In the past if she cried, it was because she was
> >>> really hurt. Then it progressed to major tantrums. We'd had
> >>> tantrums in the past, but nothing like this - very aggressive with
> >>> me and DH, hitting, pulling, kicking, screaming, totally in
> >>> hysterics.
>
> >>> I'd lean towards it being a phase, it's just that it was rather
> >>> sudden. Her behaviour mirrors that of a friend's kid, whom she
> >>> spends a lot of time with. And at first I thought she was just
> >>> imitating her, but this has gone on too long for that, and she
> >>> hasn't spent as much time with her since this started.
>
> >>> Now, there IS a new baby in the house as of 2 weeks ago, but this
> >>> behaviour started a few weeks before that. She's otherwise thrilled
> >>> with her baby brother, loves him to pieces and always wants to be
> >>> with him. She's had another major change with her daycare closing -
> >>> she was at an in home daycare for the past 2.5 years and loved
> >>> "Nana." As of last week Nana retired....but then DD has talked for
> >>> the past few weeks about starting school, so hasn't seemed too
> >>> disappointed about not seeing Nana anymore. And again, this
> >>> behaviour started weeks before she even knew about Nana retiring. I
> >>> do think Nana was a bit stressed and scolded her a bit more in the
> >>> final weeks (DD is still having potty training issues, but was
> >>> doing well). And DH has been super stressed for the past month or
> >>> two about work. And of course new baby stress (baby is not gaining
> >>> well and not latching so I'm nursing every 2 hour for 30 minutes).
>
> >>> I'm trying to spend as much time with her as possible - fortunately
> >>> this baby sleeps (unlike her), so I spend all that time he's asleep
> >>> focusing on her. But this behaviour is just constant. No more my
> >>> laughing singing dancing child, in her place is a mean, unhappy,
> >>> aggressive, screaming child. I feel so bad *for* her as well as for
> >>> us, because this is so difficult.
>
> >>> I'm at a total loss about what to do.
>
> >>> Any suggestions?
>
> >> I would put it down to the new baby. Not that you can ignore the
> >> behaviour, but she will have known baby was coming. #2 never used
> >> her buggy until I was about 7 months with #3 when she anounced "that
> >> baby isn't using my buggy". She'd seemed really excited about the
> >> new baby, and I think that was the only negative expressed to me,
> >> but she hated going in the buggy, so it completely took me by
> >> surprise.
> >> If baby's crying and you're doing something with #1 then say "no, #2
> >> you'll have to wait, I'm busy with #1" so that #1 knows they get you
> >> when they need to.
> >> If you're all stressed then she's going to pick that up too.
> >> Agree with pick your battles. I remember ignoring #1 drawing on the
> >> wall when #2 was having a midwife check. Afterwards me and her
> >> cleaned it up with baby wipes, and afterwards I said "what a pity
> >> cleaning it took that time when we could have done something fun".
> >> She never did it again, and I didn't have to tell her off or be
> >> cross with her.
> >> I go for one warning, then act. If it's dangerous, then straight to
> >> naughty step/room/ whereever away. If she's having a tantrum then
> >> either pick up and remove if you can, or go away and leave her. Give
> >> her a cuddle afterwards. Maybe she needs sometimes to go out with
> >> you on your own. Leave the baby for 40minutes and have a drink at a
> >> cafe, or go and buy her a new dress.
> >> I'm not sure how talking about it helps. A child may say "I
> >> understand why" when they're calm and peaceful, but when the flash
> >> point comes up they won't really remember it.
> >> (((hugs)))
> >> Debbie
>
> > Yeah, It's definitely the baby.....today she told DH (after asking to
> > hold the baby) "I don't like my baby brother. I want him to go back in
> > mommy's tummy." Ouch. Breaks my heart. By comparison, the weekend
> > before he was born, she helped DH put the bassinet together and said
> > "This is going to be the best baby ever!" and the next morning ran
> > into the room asking "where's the baby?" So I had been more
> > hopeful....She's also trying to lay in his bassinet (funny because she
> > never slept in it herself when she was a baby) and sit in his
> > maxicosi....She still smothers him with kisses and hugs.
>
> > I'm trying to do more one on one stuff with her, but it'll be hard
> > during the week when I'm on my own.  I keep reminding her I love her,
> > try to be positive with her and focus on re-direction when she does
> > stuff. I hope this means that it'll pass though.
>
> Yes, it will pass. It's not a bad thing for a first-born child to realize
> that they aren't the only star in the universe and that from now on they
> will have to share mom and dad's attention, and yes, there won't always be
> enough attention to go around. That's the trade-off parents choose and
> children must accept when more children are added to the family.
> You know that having a sibling is beneficial to her. Don't feel guilty or
> try to overcompensate in alleviating her bad feelings. The more you do, the
> more you reinforce the idea that the baby is an annoyance and an interloper.
> If she wants to help with the baby, let her, but do not force her.
> I'm the oldest of four, born within four years. My mother did not have time
> to worry about what we all thought about our younger siblings. We're all
> very close to this day. My children are 20, 16, and 12, and they are also
> close to each other and best friends..not always easy, but I credit my mom
> with making me realize that sibling relationships are more important than
> parent-child relationships.

Good points.

We definitely don't push the baby on her. Quite the contrary - she
insists on always holding him, it's an argument for me to take him to
nurse him. She's finally accepted it, but for the first week she kept
saying "No mommy, you have to share the baby. It's my turn to hold
him."

I do feel badly for her though - not so much because her center of the
universe status has been usurped, but because my formerly always happy
child is constantly on the verge of a tantrum and completely
miserable. I also don't want her to resent her brother for taking
mommy away, so clearly need to find a balance. If this is just a phase
and related to the baby, I'm a little less worried, as we can muddle
through. Part of me is worried there's something bigger going on,
because it was so sudden and drastic. Also, we have a friend whose
child behaves similarly, and always has, so I really don't want this
to become permanent!
From: Pologirl on

Hi Cjra,

Congratulations on your new baby!

> That all changed about a month ago. It was rather sudden one day which
> makes me worried. It started off with weepiness.

I too would take her to a pediatrician for a thorough checkup. But
then I am the mother of a child who had a large tumor. Others,
parents and people who suffered from similar tumors when they were
little, have come out of the woodwork to me. A physical cause is
unlikely, but very serious.


> (baby is not gaining well and not latching so I'm nursing
> every 2 hour for 30 minutes).

Oh dear. My first was like that. Fortunately my second had no
feeding problems. Your 3yo must get very bored and cranky, waiting
for the nursling to finish. Between nursing, diaper changing, and
just keeping all heads above water, you can't have much time for
anything else.


> I'm trying to spend as much time with her as possible - fortunately
> this baby sleeps (unlike her), so I spend all that time he's asleep
> focusing on her. But this behaviour is just constant. No more my
> laughing singing dancing child, in her place is a mean, unhappy,
> aggressive, screaming child.

At 3 1/2, she is old enough to understand her behavior is not
acceptable, and that other people don't like it. So it may help to
tell her you don't like it and you are going off by yourself for a
little while until you calm down. Time out for you. You may want to
try this when DH is home, and coach him first about his responses to
her responses to you. DH really needs to stop the "no, stop that"
routine and you need to coach him in detail on how else to respond.
Many children who want attention would rather be scolded than
ignored. I find it effective to ignore the bad behavior and be ready
to reward with my attention even the slightest improvement. You say
she snaps fabric in your face. Yes, this could hurt you and cannot be
ignored. But you can attend to the danger (snapping fabric) rather
than the behavior (demanding your attention). Swiftly confiscate the
offending fabric and put it in time out / in the laundry machine / in
a closet. Say not a word about it to her. If you can manage it,
don't glare, perhaps don't even look at her while you deal directly
with the offending fabric. I am not saying cut her cold, just be
neutral toward her. Make it not about her. If nothing else, you may
find yourself feeling much more in control and calmer. You can
control a piece of fabric in a way that you cannot control a child.

Pologirl
From: Nikki on
I don't really have any advice that wasn't already offered. I just
popped in and wanted to say congrats and I hope things settle down soon.
IME it is the expected response of a spirited child in her
situation but that doesn't really make it any easier on the parents!!
It is nice to see old familiar names on the thread. One of my 3yo's is
the same way. So busy and ornery. It is exhausting and I don't have
a newborn!

--

Nikki, mama to 4 boys.