From: Jan Drew on
"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:SYImk.16546$xZ.7018(a)nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> "Coleah" <coleah(a)pacifier.com> wrote in message
> news:d6938be0-78eb-4759-b7d3-44d8024d551d(a)x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 7, 4:51 am, "JOHN" <j...(a)nospam.com> wrote:
>
> JOHN" <john(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:uamdnQXXOJ01WAfVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>> Girls report severe reactions to Gardasil vaccine July 10th, 2008
>> Katherine
>> Kimzey, 14, talks about suffering seizures, fainting, headaches and
>> stiffness after her second dose of Gardasil. Girls and women around the
>> country have reported severe reactions to the vaccine designed to protect
>> against the human papillomavirus and cervical cancer.
>> http://www.whas11.com/video/index.html?nvid=262209
>>
>> [June 2008] HPV vaccine's suspected side effects cause concern; CDC says
>> drug is safe http://www.whale.to/vaccine/hpv_vaccine1.html
>>
>> Katherine Kimzey started suffering debilitating headaches, fainting
>> spells
>> and arthritis-like stiffness last November. Six weeks later, the
>> 14-year-old
>> Dallas resident became so dizzy she could barely walk. She was
>> hospitalized
>> and missed three weeks of school. Then, she had a seizure. For weeks, she
>> bounced back and forth between specialists and was eventually diagnosed
>> with
>> epilepsy.
>>
>>
>
>
>> Girls report severe reactions to Gardasil vaccine July 10th, 2008
>> Katherine
>> Kimzey, 14, talks about suffering seizures, fainting, headaches and
>> stiffness after her second dose of Gardasil. Girls and women around the
>> country have reported severe reactions to the vaccine designed to protect
>> against the human papillomavirus and cervical
>> cancer.http://www.whas11.com/video/index.html?nvid=262209
>>
>> [June 2008] HPV vaccine's suspected side effects cause concern; CDC says
>> drug is safe
> http://www.whale.to/vaccine/hpv_vaccine1.html
>
>>
>> Katherine Kimzey started suffering debilitating headaches, fainting
>> spells
>> and arthritis-like stiffness last November. Six weeks later, the
>> 14-year-old
>> Dallas resident became so dizzy she could barely walk. She was
>> hospitalized
>> and missed three weeks of school. Then, she had a seizure. For weeks, she
>> bounced back and forth between specialists and was eventually diagnosed
>> with
>> epilepsy.
>
> ====================
>
> I do hope that by posting this you are not claiming this girl's
> Epilepsy was a direct 'reaction' to Gardasil vaccine.
>
> Many (delicate flower) girls faint from injections (or blood tests for
> that matter). Aside from injections, some girls are taken to
> headaches and fainting spells at times of phychological stress.
>
> Psycholobabble...
>
> The entity *somatization disorder* is psychobabble and is obtained from
> the
> DSM-IV manual and is used by psychologists and psychiatrists.MD's have
> borrowed
> the entity for their own uses. It is a spurious diagnosis with no
> laboratory
> indicators.
>
>
> that somatization disorder is a kind of junk category into which
> physicians
> dump patients presenting with mind/behaviorialsymptoms and/or a history of
> such
> which the physician does not fancy or understand, especially if the
> patient
> does not present with symptoms or symptoms which are not separate
> diagnoses
> (also anon-scientific way of separating symptoms and causality) . I
> mentiont
> his because mercury and lead are both known to cause primarily
> "psychiatric"
> symptoms, with a history of emotional instability, etc.in patients.
>
>
> So a "scientist" is someone who makes "a priori" judgements about what
> neurological symptoms a heavy metal poisoned patient can and cannot have.
> A
> "scientist" demands laboratory indicators whenever his fraternity does so.
> When the fraternity does not do so, the esteemed scientist Rx's Prozac
> like
> *mad*. But if the patient's complaints appear in some kind of package
> which
> don't meet the prejudices of the male clinician/voodoo doctor, then it's
> necessary to pull out theDSM-IV manual and wax on about scientific
> discipline
> and create from thin air a "somatization disorder".
>
>
> It's just another way of saying that one can create a loose definition of
> a
> nebulous condition and then stretch it to label anything which appears
> bizarre,
> so that rather than actually diagnose and solve problems you can dump the
> ones
> you don't like into the recycle bin andlet the DSM-IV manual thumpers
> profit
> from the stash. That way everybody is happy. The male voodoo doctor gets
> to
> see himself as a scientist and the psych therapist gets another client.
>
>
> I believe that SD is used by doctors who do not like the idea that
> conditiions
> which affect the brain cause certain mental states and behaviors which are
> not
> in keeping with their own requirements for how disease is supposed to
> manifest
> in the human body. I believe the medical profession has an alliance with
> the
> psych profession because they share a common belief system.
>
>
> No, the starting point is to go back to college and unlearn the
> psychobabble
> taught to physicians in med school. But that cannot be done--with all the
> psychological investments involved in the career and selfhood and one's
> supremecy of being--so instead one wages war on the Chronic Fatigue,
> Fibromyalgia, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivitysyndromes, since these
> syndromes
> are diseases of both body and brain,in which affective disorders are
> documented
> in all three. But since the Freudian-psychobabble-educated physician
> suffers
> cognitivedissonance when presented with these, the syndromes must be
> attacked.
> Continuing education is not an option. Instead, reality must be shaped to
> fit
> the psychological needs of the profession, and the patients need to be
> hazed.
>
>
> So rather than counsel with a psychotherapist over issues of selfhood and
> megalomania and deep insecurity which interfere with the process of
> continuing
> education--which is also the scientific process itself--it is necessary to
> reformulate these disease syndromes so that they fit into the 20th-century
> mind-body conceptual dualism taught to physicians, in which brain diseases
> are
> separate from diseases of thebody and mind states are separate from both.
> This
> needs to be done despite the fact that poisons such as lead and mercury
> have
> been known for 100 years to poison the brain, body, and mind all at the
> same
> time. So Science needs to be bent and manipulated to serve a profession
> which
> maintains a conceputal framework which is not rooted in Science, and those
> teachings must be maintained for those sychologically inclined to
> conservatism
> and intellectual dominance,all properly wrapped in the impressive rhetoric
> of
> scientific and clinical objectivity.
>
>
> A lot of your responses are flak garbage which you use to exhaust
> pariticpants.
> I made my position perfectly clear. Decades of psychobiological research,
> including century-long scientfically acquired knowledge on the effect of
> poisons such as heavy metals on the brain, show that mood and mental
> states
> can
> and do derive fromorganic origins. Meanwhile state-credentialed MD's are
> writing books and articles about how biological psychiatry is
> "pseudoscience",
> a"myth", and a "fraud". On *this* subject the present generation is
> corrupt,
> and is not going to give up its intellectual commitment to the
> psychobabble
> it
> received in med school.
>
>
> On the issue of MCS, ascribing "affective disorders" to "psychologicalf
> actors"
> is an opinion which is rammed through as Science. It is accompanied by
> dismissive descriptions of mind states and behavior of the patients, with
> all
> kinds of unscientific judgements andassumptions as to 1) whether those
> mind
> states and behavior arelegitimate (e.g. fear of chemicals, stress of
> chronic
> illness), and 2)whether the mind states and behavior have an organic or
> non-organic origin.
>
>
> MCS *will* receive a fair hearing only when the medical profession gives
> up
> its
> intellecutal commitment to the teachings of psychology as the only
> explanation
> for how mind states and behavior alter with disease.
>
>
> You asked me for evidence of "mind-body conceptual dualism" and I just
> gave
> an
> example from a psychobabbling physician in this thread. Your technique is
> to
> bait and throw out idiotic flak, so that now we can have a separate
> existential
> debate as to whether there really is adualistic mind-body conception in
> modern
> medicine.
>
>
> Yes, physicians do recognize a connection between the two--they call it
> somatization disorder. That is, your boyfriend broke up with you and you
> are
> self-pitiful due to your past child raising and have along history of
> maladaptive behaviors and you have sunken into depression and can't
> concentrate
> and now your immunity has sunk and now you have an infection etc etc.
> They
> may
> *also* talk about a"psychological component" as being the result of
> chronic
> stress from the illness.
>
>
> But the medical profession is selective about when the connection operates
> in
> one direction vs. the other.
>
>
> The fact is, there isn't an economy for the problem of chronic mercury and
> lead
> exposure causing maladaptive dysfunctional unhealthy minds and behaviors.
> Not
> because the science doesn't exist to support it. But because the economy
> doesn't exist to produce the professional intellect to study, talk about,
> and
> treat it. The psychotherapists and psychologists would be in less demand.
> There would be no drugs to patent. Hence the facts are dropped from
> consciousness. That mercury and lead f**k up people's emotions and minds
> (in
> addition to a hundred other symptoms) is so dropped out of consciousness
> that
> MD's can write books that argue that Biological Psychiatry is a fraud.
>
>
> As a result, one must conclude that MCS is not caused by poisons--which
> just
> about everyone who has the illness and has clinical experience treating it
> argues--but rather is a somatization disorder.
>
>
> This is how economy and professional cultures distort reality and allow
> ingrained assumptions and bias to manipulate and distort the process of
> scientific inquiry.
>
>
> No, many physicians recognize that they are often dealing with illnesses
> that
> involve both the mind & the body. It would seem as if you are attributing
> their admission of this fact to some sort of denial instead. Incorrect.
> But
> commonly the same conclusion that some patients erroneously arrive at if
> the
> doc declines to attribute the illness to physical factors alone.
>
>
> This thread is in the context of MCS. Within the context of this subject
> physicians *do not* generally conceive or discuss depression*or* anxiety
> in
> any
> terms other than the psychologist's, regardless *how* the psychologist
> constructs the relationship, it is the*psychologist's* constructiona and
> the
> psychologist's ideology. The very own terminology employed by the author
> of
> the medical textbook cited, who is at the pro-MCS end of the debate
> *within*
> the mainstream, is that it is an illness with "psychological factors".
>
>
> Since you mention arthritis in the context of this thread on MCS (which is
> a
> disease its propopents argue is the result of*poisoning*), I will say that
> poisons such as lead and mercury commonly causes brain symptoms *first*,
> because these poisons are emically attracted to brain tissue. The first
> stage
> of these poisonings is commonly brain symptoms only. Patients may suffer
> depression or anxiety for *years* before the symptoms originating in
> organs
> *below neck* emerge in sufficient degree to cause the patient to seek
> care.
> So
> the depression in these cases does *not* follow arthritis and the
> depression
> is
> not something "psychological" *asdistinct* from the physical. The
> depression
> is not of the"psychological" domain. It is a physical symptom no less
> than
> arthritis. It is not a "component" and it is not a "factor". It is
> a*symptom*.
>
>
> The problem is conceptualizing depression and anxiety as being in
> adifferent
> category than "physical" symptoms. This division in thought is reflected
> by
> your own use of language and the very manner in which you discuss
> depression
> in
> relation to other symptoms. Depression commonly bears no relation to the
> other
> symptoms except they both share a similar cause in some *poison* which has
> attacked the brain together with other organs in the body.This
> conceptualizing
> is largely responsible for the opposition to these diseases by the medical
> profession.>
>
>
> Depression is not a *component* by "a priori" assumption. If doctors want
> to
> assume the nature of the pathology in a conceptual framework and language
> *originated by psychologists*, then they should seek psychology as a
> career
> and
> *not* human physiology. If doctors want to educate us about how
> depression
> affects human health--but *not* how mercury and lead affect affect brain
> and
> emotional and mental health--then they should be psychologists and lecture
> on
> Ophrah Winfrey, but *not* manipulate the research and interpretation of
> MCS
> research by projecting their own indoctrination onto reality.>
>
>
> Depression needn't be a *component* and it needn't be a *factor *simply
> because
> psychologists (and physicians loyal to their ideology) insist that it be
> so.
>
>
> I do not agree that I am arguing with myself and I do not agree we are
> simply
> talking about terminology. I have a good first-hand understanding of the
> disease, I have a good understanding of non-mainstream discussions of the
> disease, and I have good understanding of mainstream discussions of the
> disease. Within the mainstream the depression/anxiety is presently
> discussed
> as being a"factor" or "component"--*not* a symptom. Ten years ago the
> depression/anxiety was discussed as being *causative*. There has beena
> gradual
> shift in language as the disorder has been *grudgingly*accepted as being
> somatic, but the acceptance has been gradual, in which the
> depression/anxiety
> has altered from being "primary" to being a "factor" or a "component". No
> this
> is not simply terminology but reflects changing conceptions of the disease
> as
> the medical society isslowly accepting that chemical intolerance exists,
> but
> cannot shake lose its belief system for how depression and anxiety play a
> role
> in these diseases.
>
>
> You say that much is not understood about the disease. Then I expect that
> the
> medical society which you defend *suspend* its assumptiosn about
> depression/anxeity being primary *or* a "component" or "factor"in any
> causative
> way regarding chemical intolerance, and to cease using language which
> communicates that very conception.
>
>
> A neurologist who has decribed what actually happens in MCS is that the
> brain
> is abnormally stimulated by the chemical and an electrochemical reaction
> occurs
> in the brain in which the neurotoxicant glutamate is released and brain
> cells
> swell and the patients suffers debiliitating symptoms. He further states
> that
> this process is a process of ongoing injury to brain cells, a disease of
> pre-existing brain cell injury with continuing brain cell injury
> uponchemical
> exposures. He reached these conclusions after studying changes in EEG
> measurements in which patients were exposed tochemicals such as paint,
> gasoline, perfume, lacquer, etc. He found wildly altering EEG
> measurements
> upon chemical exposure and found evidence of dementia in the patient in
> various
> areas of the brain, with brain function deteriorating upon exposure. This
> neurologist'sattempt 10 years ago to gather a scientific audience for his
> findingsresearch was frustrated and obstructed while at the same time
> descriptions by mainstream medical scientists and professionals of
> "affective
> disorders" being primary or a causitive "factor" or"component" are
> accepted
> without question. I think that if one examines the *neurological*
> observations
> made and explanations advanced for what is happening in the brain upon
> chemical
> exposures, one would find the descriptions of "affective disorders" and
> "somatization disorders" as being causitive "components"/"factors" to be
> asinine in their utter vacuity with regard to the subject.
>
>
> So I do not even agree with the primacy which is given to
> anxiety/depression
> in
> these diseases because examinations of the disease which actually have
> some
> neurobiological depth find that anxeity/depression have little to do with
> the
> disease process. It is a sideshow produced by persons who know nothing of
> the
> disease and are prefectly content to send both the patients and
> neurological
> investigations into their disease into the garbage chute. What has been
> occuring has been a type of medical and sociological final solution to a
> disease and its sufferers which appear to be bizarre to many uninformed.
>
>
> But because the numbers of affected is so high, the culture and the
> society
> is
> forced to make some kind of adjustments in its willingness to admit the
> reality
> of the disease, but because it resists explanations outside of the
> intellectual
> box it has been taught, it still cannot accept chemical intolerance
> because
> it
> cannot fit the emical intolerance together with the affective disorders,
> because it is not willing to alter its dogma regarding how affective
> disorders
> present themselves with other brain symptoms in body-brain diseases.
>
>
> No I'm sorry but this is not simply about terminology.
>
>
> Don't kid yourselves. If you think the debate is resolved by physicians
> who
> like to throw around big terms like "somatization" as if they are experts
> on
> the topic, don't kid yourselves. Go get your Shrink's license and do the
> kind
> psycho babbling and psycho labelling instead of passing yourselves off as
> honest scientists. In that role, rather than as the frustrated shrinks
> you
> presently are, you can get all the hard-ons you want writing profiles for
> Abnormal Psychology journals.
>
>
> By the way, I just recently spoke to a mother of an autistic child who
> said
> her
> child has "raging" chemical sensitivities. This I think will demand some
> more
> inventive, delusional, and self-elevating psychobabble from frustrated
> psychologists in the physicians lounge. Autistic children make good meat
> for
> physicians contemptuous of new diseases which stretch their education.
>
>
> Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity
> syndromes are beyond the medical education and intellect of the present
> generation. The medical textbooks which properly deal with these diseases
> medically and scientifically will be written by the next generation. The
> present generation of sci/med professionals generally will protect its
> intellectual turf until it retires, and hese patients will be scoffed at,
> ridiculed, marginalized etc. until fresh yound minds, which will not find
> these
> diseases to be strange, will give these diseases the study and respect
> they
>
>
> It
> used to be referred to as 'the Vapors'.
>
> Soreness at an injection site is not an unusual reaction. Ten years
> of study done. Followup reports provide no proof of Gardasil being a
> direct cause for incidental health issues (such as a case of
> Epilepsy) .
>
> Done by whom?
>
> The drugmaker Merck.
>
> And
> *organized medicine*
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16891832/
>
> See the LIES there.
>
> ==
>
> The side effects include pain, swelling, itching, and redness at the
> injection site, fever, nausea, dizziness, vomiting, and fainting. GARDASIL
> is given as 3 injections over 6 months.
>
> I'm not sure how many of these incidental reports involved receiving
> multiple vaccinations at the same time. My boot camp memories of
> getting multiple vaccinations were of walking in a line, receiving air-
> gun type injections in both arms, simultaneously....and then we 'ran'
> out a door and down a flight of stairs. A couple of 'delicate
> flowers' did faint on the way down the stairs.
>
> It is wonderful that followup's are being tracked and analyzed, but
> IMHO there is nothing being reported that should strike fear in the
> hearts of man. Except for the very nervous and angry "fear-mongers".
>
> But Merck has doubled its spending on lobbyists in Texas this year, to
> between $150,000 and $250,000, as lawmakers consider the vaccine bill for
> girls entering the sixth grade.
>
> Also, the drugmaker has hired one of the state's most powerful lobbyists,
> Mike Toomey, who once served as Republican Gov. Rick Perry's chief of
> staff
> and can influence conservatives who see him as one of their own.
>
> Gardasil Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Vaccine
>
> On June 8, 2006, the FDA licensed Gardasil�, the first vaccine developed
> to
> prevent cervical cancer caused by certain kinds of human papillomavirus
> (HPV). Since then, more than 12 million doses of Gardasil vaccine have
> been
> distributed. In 2006, a total of 2,151,000 doses were distributed and in
> 2007, another 11,317,902. At this time, the U.S. does not have a national
> registry for immunization and vaccination and therefore cannot report the
> total number of people who have received Gardasil.
>
> Gardasil has been tested in more than 11,000 females 9 to 26 years of age
> in
> many countries around the world, including the United States. These
> studies
> found the HPV vaccine is safe and causes no serious side effects. The most
> common side effect is injection site pain.
>
> VAERS Reports Related to Gardasil Vaccination
> June 8, 2006 through April 30, 2008
> Note: VAERS defines serious adverse events by the Code of Federal
> Regulations as adverse events involving hospitalization, death, permanent
> disability, and life-threatening illness. Also, VAERS data are updated
> continuously and the number of reports will vary depending on the date of
> analysis.
>
> The following reports were submitted to VAERS between the date the vaccine
> was licensed (June 8, 2006) and April 30, 2008.
>
> VAERS received 7,802 reports after Gardasil vaccination in the U.S. Less
> than 7% reported serious side effects, about half of the average for
> vaccines overall.
>
> Deaths
>
> VAERS received 15 reports of death following Gardasil vaccination in the
> U.S. Only 10 reports contained the level of information adequate for
> further
> analysis. After careful review of those reports we could not establish the
> causal relationship between vaccination and death. For the remaining 5
> reports of death, we were unable to obtain any patient identifying
> information; therefore we could not confirm death outcomes. Note: While
> Gardasil was being tested in the U.S. before it was licensed, 10 people in
> the group that received the HPV vaccine and 7 people in the placebo group
> died during the trials. None of the deaths was considered vaccine-related.
>
> Guillain-Barr� Syndrome (GBS)
>
> Note: GBS cases take longer to verify because each case must be confirmed
> manually by CISA staff after reviewing the patient's medical record.
>
> VAERS received 31 reports of Guillain-Barr� Syndrome (GBS) after Gardasil
> vaccination in the U.S. Ten have been confirmed. Of the 10 confirmed GBS
> cases, 5 reported vaccination with Menactra and Gardasil at the same time.
> Of the remaining 21 reports, 7 did not meet the case definition for GBS
> (when evaluated by the Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment (CISA)
> group), 1 had symptoms of GBS prior to vaccination, 4 are unconfirmed
> reports, and 9 are pending additional follow-up.
>
> Because GBS occurs at a rate of 1 to 2 per 100,000 person-years during the
> second decade of life, it is likely that some cases occur after
> vaccination
> by chance alone and are not caused by vaccination. Among 9 to 26
> year-olds,
> the number of reports of GBS received by VAERS are within the range that
> could be expected to occur by chance alone after a vaccination. Studies
> are
> underway to evaluate the risk of GBS that may be associated with receipt
> of
> Menactra vaccine.
>
> Page last reviewed: June 16, 2008
> Page last updated: June 16, 2008
> Content source: Immunization Safety Office, Office of the Chief Science
> Officer
> ===
> So much for Coleah.
>
>
From: D. C. Sessions on
In message <HOGdnTLYqOjtuQbVRVnyvwA(a)bt.com>, JOHN wrote:

> "Myrl" <wisgroup_leader(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:68ad0b29-db73-4702-be80-451931b9d31c(a)a21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> And sadly, while reporting these few incidents, in the midst of their
> hystrionics, anti-vac folks won't address the 250,000 - 290,000 women
> who die globally each year from Cervical Cancer. Nor do they speak
> about the millions that require treatment for other HPV related
> disease, such as genital warts, certain oral cancers, etc.
>
> http://www.whale.to/vaccines/gardasil_h.html

During the clinical trial of Gardasil, seven of the study
participants died in auto wrecks. Was that a coincidence?

--
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs(a)lumbercartel.com> -+
From: JOHN on

"Jeff" <jeff.utz(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9ac8fa3e-1e38-4632-9f90-56d247873d46(a)m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

<pharma lies and drivel deleted>



From: Jeff on
On Aug 8, 3:38 am, "JOHN" <j...(a)nospam.com> wrote:
> "Jeff" <jeff....(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9ac8fa3e-1e38-4632-9f90-56d247873d46(a)m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> <pharma lies and drivel deleted>

You're correct. The original message you posted was drivel.

And, your comment indicates that you can neither understand nor
respond to my comments.

Have a lovely day.

Jeff

From: JOHN on

"Jeff" <jeff.utz(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:66e3ee0a-99b1-4783-a637-4685d060aecf(a)w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com...

respond to my comments.

Have a lovely day.

Jeff


I will but not this family http://www.whale.to/vaccine/my_girl_died.html