From: Myrl on
On Aug 7, 9:36 am, "JOHN" <j...(a)nospam.com> wrote:
> "Myrl" <wisgroup_lea...(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:68ad0b29-db73-4702-be80-451931b9d31c(a)a21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> And sadly, while reporting these few incidents, in the midst of their
> hystrionics, anti-vac folks won't address the 250,000 - 290,000 women
> who die globally each year from Cervical Cancer.  Nor do they speak
> about the millions that require treatment for other HPV related
> disease, such as genital warts, certain oral cancers, etc.
>
> http://www.whale.to/vaccines/gardasil_h.html


Hmmmm! "whale.com" - Now that's a "reliable" source of scientific
study. . .LOL!
From: Jan Drew on

"Coleah" <coleah(a)pacifier.com> wrote in message
news:d6938be0-78eb-4759-b7d3-44d8024d551d(a)x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 7, 4:51 am, "JOHN" <j...(a)nospam.com> wrote:

JOHN" <john(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uamdnQXXOJ01WAfVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d(a)bt.com...
> Girls report severe reactions to Gardasil vaccine July 10th, 2008
> Katherine
> Kimzey, 14, talks about suffering seizures, fainting, headaches and
> stiffness after her second dose of Gardasil. Girls and women around the
> country have reported severe reactions to the vaccine designed to protect
> against the human papillomavirus and cervical cancer.
> http://www.whas11.com/video/index.html?nvid=262209
>
> [June 2008] HPV vaccine's suspected side effects cause concern; CDC says
> drug is safe http://www.whale.to/vaccine/hpv_vaccine1.html
>
> Katherine Kimzey started suffering debilitating headaches, fainting spells
> and arthritis-like stiffness last November. Six weeks later, the
> 14-year-old
> Dallas resident became so dizzy she could barely walk. She was
> hospitalized
> and missed three weeks of school. Then, she had a seizure. For weeks, she
> bounced back and forth between specialists and was eventually diagnosed
> with
> epilepsy.
>
>


> Girls report severe reactions to Gardasil vaccine July 10th, 2008
> Katherine
> Kimzey, 14, talks about suffering seizures, fainting, headaches and
> stiffness after her second dose of Gardasil. Girls and women around the
> country have reported severe reactions to the vaccine designed to protect
> against the human papillomavirus and cervical
> cancer.http://www.whas11.com/video/index.html?nvid=262209
>
> [June 2008] HPV vaccine's suspected side effects cause concern; CDC says
> drug is safe
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/hpv_vaccine1.html

>
> Katherine Kimzey started suffering debilitating headaches, fainting spells
> and arthritis-like stiffness last November. Six weeks later, the
> 14-year-old
> Dallas resident became so dizzy she could barely walk. She was
> hospitalized
> and missed three weeks of school. Then, she had a seizure. For weeks, she
> bounced back and forth between specialists and was eventually diagnosed
> with
> epilepsy.

====================

I do hope that by posting this you are not claiming this girl's
Epilepsy was a direct 'reaction' to Gardasil vaccine.

Many (delicate flower) girls faint from injections (or blood tests for
that matter). Aside from injections, some girls are taken to
headaches and fainting spells at times of phychological stress.

Psycholobabble...

The entity *somatization disorder* is psychobabble and is obtained from the
DSM-IV manual and is used by psychologists and psychiatrists.MD's have
borrowed
the entity for their own uses. It is a spurious diagnosis with no
laboratory
indicators.


that somatization disorder is a kind of junk category into which physicians
dump patients presenting with mind/behaviorialsymptoms and/or a history of
such
which the physician does not fancy or understand, especially if the patient
does not present with symptoms or symptoms which are not separate diagnoses
(also anon-scientific way of separating symptoms and causality) . I
mentiont
his because mercury and lead are both known to cause primarily "psychiatric"
symptoms, with a history of emotional instability, etc.in patients.


So a "scientist" is someone who makes "a priori" judgements about what
neurological symptoms a heavy metal poisoned patient can and cannot have. A
"scientist" demands laboratory indicators whenever his fraternity does so.
When the fraternity does not do so, the esteemed scientist Rx's Prozac like
*mad*. But if the patient's complaints appear in some kind of package
which
don't meet the prejudices of the male clinician/voodoo doctor, then it's
necessary to pull out theDSM-IV manual and wax on about scientific
discipline
and create from thin air a "somatization disorder".


It's just another way of saying that one can create a loose definition of a
nebulous condition and then stretch it to label anything which appears
bizarre,
so that rather than actually diagnose and solve problems you can dump the
ones
you don't like into the recycle bin andlet the DSM-IV manual thumpers profit
from the stash. That way everybody is happy. The male voodoo doctor gets
to
see himself as a scientist and the psych therapist gets another client.


I believe that SD is used by doctors who do not like the idea that
conditiions
which affect the brain cause certain mental states and behaviors which are
not
in keeping with their own requirements for how disease is supposed to
manifest
in the human body. I believe the medical profession has an alliance with
the
psych profession because they share a common belief system.


No, the starting point is to go back to college and unlearn the psychobabble
taught to physicians in med school. But that cannot be done--with all the
psychological investments involved in the career and selfhood and one's
supremecy of being--so instead one wages war on the Chronic Fatigue,
Fibromyalgia, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivitysyndromes, since these
syndromes
are diseases of both body and brain,in which affective disorders are
documented
in all three. But since the Freudian-psychobabble-educated physician
suffers
cognitivedissonance when presented with these, the syndromes must be
attacked.
Continuing education is not an option. Instead, reality must be shaped to
fit
the psychological needs of the profession, and the patients need to be
hazed.


So rather than counsel with a psychotherapist over issues of selfhood and
megalomania and deep insecurity which interfere with the process of
continuing
education--which is also the scientific process itself--it is necessary to
reformulate these disease syndromes so that they fit into the 20th-century
mind-body conceptual dualism taught to physicians, in which brain diseases
are
separate from diseases of thebody and mind states are separate from both.
This
needs to be done despite the fact that poisons such as lead and mercury have
been known for 100 years to poison the brain, body, and mind all at the same
time. So Science needs to be bent and manipulated to serve a profession
which
maintains a conceputal framework which is not rooted in Science, and those
teachings must be maintained for those sychologically inclined to
conservatism
and intellectual dominance,all properly wrapped in the impressive rhetoric
of
scientific and clinical objectivity.


A lot of your responses are flak garbage which you use to exhaust
pariticpants.
I made my position perfectly clear. Decades of psychobiological research,
including century-long scientfically acquired knowledge on the effect of
poisons such as heavy metals on the brain, show that mood and mental states
can
and do derive fromorganic origins. Meanwhile state-credentialed MD's are
writing books and articles about how biological psychiatry is
"pseudoscience",
a"myth", and a "fraud". On *this* subject the present generation is
corrupt,
and is not going to give up its intellectual commitment to the psychobabble
it
received in med school.


On the issue of MCS, ascribing "affective disorders" to "psychologicalf
actors"
is an opinion which is rammed through as Science. It is accompanied by
dismissive descriptions of mind states and behavior of the patients, with
all
kinds of unscientific judgements andassumptions as to 1) whether those mind
states and behavior arelegitimate (e.g. fear of chemicals, stress of chronic
illness), and 2)whether the mind states and behavior have an organic or
non-organic origin.


MCS *will* receive a fair hearing only when the medical profession gives up
its
intellecutal commitment to the teachings of psychology as the only
explanation
for how mind states and behavior alter with disease.


You asked me for evidence of "mind-body conceptual dualism" and I just gave
an
example from a psychobabbling physician in this thread. Your technique is
to
bait and throw out idiotic flak, so that now we can have a separate
existential
debate as to whether there really is adualistic mind-body conception in
modern
medicine.


Yes, physicians do recognize a connection between the two--they call it
somatization disorder. That is, your boyfriend broke up with you and you
are
self-pitiful due to your past child raising and have along history of
maladaptive behaviors and you have sunken into depression and can't
concentrate
and now your immunity has sunk and now you have an infection etc etc. They
may
*also* talk about a"psychological component" as being the result of chronic
stress from the illness.


But the medical profession is selective about when the connection operates
in
one direction vs. the other.


The fact is, there isn't an economy for the problem of chronic mercury and
lead
exposure causing maladaptive dysfunctional unhealthy minds and behaviors.
Not
because the science doesn't exist to support it. But because the economy
doesn't exist to produce the professional intellect to study, talk about,
and
treat it. The psychotherapists and psychologists would be in less demand.
There would be no drugs to patent. Hence the facts are dropped from
consciousness. That mercury and lead f**k up people's emotions and minds
(in
addition to a hundred other symptoms) is so dropped out of consciousness
that
MD's can write books that argue that Biological Psychiatry is a fraud.


As a result, one must conclude that MCS is not caused by poisons--which just
about everyone who has the illness and has clinical experience treating it
argues--but rather is a somatization disorder.


This is how economy and professional cultures distort reality and allow
ingrained assumptions and bias to manipulate and distort the process of
scientific inquiry.


No, many physicians recognize that they are often dealing with illnesses
that
involve both the mind & the body. It would seem as if you are attributing
their admission of this fact to some sort of denial instead. Incorrect. But
commonly the same conclusion that some patients erroneously arrive at if the
doc declines to attribute the illness to physical factors alone.


This thread is in the context of MCS. Within the context of this subject
physicians *do not* generally conceive or discuss depression*or* anxiety in
any
terms other than the psychologist's, regardless *how* the psychologist
constructs the relationship, it is the*psychologist's* constructiona and the
psychologist's ideology. The very own terminology employed by the author of
the medical textbook cited, who is at the pro-MCS end of the debate *within*
the mainstream, is that it is an illness with "psychological factors".


Since you mention arthritis in the context of this thread on MCS (which is a
disease its propopents argue is the result of*poisoning*), I will say that
poisons such as lead and mercury commonly causes brain symptoms *first*,
because these poisons are emically attracted to brain tissue. The first
stage
of these poisonings is commonly brain symptoms only. Patients may suffer
depression or anxiety for *years* before the symptoms originating in organs
*below neck* emerge in sufficient degree to cause the patient to seek care.
So
the depression in these cases does *not* follow arthritis and the depression
is
not something "psychological" *asdistinct* from the physical. The
depression
is not of the"psychological" domain. It is a physical symptom no less than
arthritis. It is not a "component" and it is not a "factor". It is
a*symptom*.


The problem is conceptualizing depression and anxiety as being in adifferent
category than "physical" symptoms. This division in thought is reflected by
your own use of language and the very manner in which you discuss depression
in
relation to other symptoms. Depression commonly bears no relation to the
other
symptoms except they both share a similar cause in some *poison* which has
attacked the brain together with other organs in the body.This
conceptualizing
is largely responsible for the opposition to these diseases by the medical
profession.>


Depression is not a *component* by "a priori" assumption. If doctors want
to
assume the nature of the pathology in a conceptual framework and language
*originated by psychologists*, then they should seek psychology as a career
and
*not* human physiology. If doctors want to educate us about how depression
affects human health--but *not* how mercury and lead affect affect brain and
emotional and mental health--then they should be psychologists and lecture
on
Ophrah Winfrey, but *not* manipulate the research and interpretation of MCS
research by projecting their own indoctrination onto reality.>


Depression needn't be a *component* and it needn't be a *factor *simply
because
psychologists (and physicians loyal to their ideology) insist that it be so.


I do not agree that I am arguing with myself and I do not agree we are
simply
talking about terminology. I have a good first-hand understanding of the
disease, I have a good understanding of non-mainstream discussions of the
disease, and I have good understanding of mainstream discussions of the
disease. Within the mainstream the depression/anxiety is presently
discussed
as being a"factor" or "component"--*not* a symptom. Ten years ago the
depression/anxiety was discussed as being *causative*. There has beena
gradual
shift in language as the disorder has been *grudgingly*accepted as being
somatic, but the acceptance has been gradual, in which the
depression/anxiety
has altered from being "primary" to being a "factor" or a "component". No
this
is not simply terminology but reflects changing conceptions of the disease
as
the medical society isslowly accepting that chemical intolerance exists, but
cannot shake lose its belief system for how depression and anxiety play a
role
in these diseases.


You say that much is not understood about the disease. Then I expect that
the
medical society which you defend *suspend* its assumptiosn about
depression/anxeity being primary *or* a "component" or "factor"in any
causative
way regarding chemical intolerance, and to cease using language which
communicates that very conception.


A neurologist who has decribed what actually happens in MCS is that the
brain
is abnormally stimulated by the chemical and an electrochemical reaction
occurs
in the brain in which the neurotoxicant glutamate is released and brain
cells
swell and the patients suffers debiliitating symptoms. He further states
that
this process is a process of ongoing injury to brain cells, a disease of
pre-existing brain cell injury with continuing brain cell injury
uponchemical
exposures. He reached these conclusions after studying changes in EEG
measurements in which patients were exposed tochemicals such as paint,
gasoline, perfume, lacquer, etc. He found wildly altering EEG measurements
upon chemical exposure and found evidence of dementia in the patient in
various
areas of the brain, with brain function deteriorating upon exposure. This
neurologist'sattempt 10 years ago to gather a scientific audience for his
findingsresearch was frustrated and obstructed while at the same time
descriptions by mainstream medical scientists and professionals of
"affective
disorders" being primary or a causitive "factor" or"component" are accepted
without question. I think that if one examines the *neurological*
observations
made and explanations advanced for what is happening in the brain upon
chemical
exposures, one would find the descriptions of "affective disorders" and
"somatization disorders" as being causitive "components"/"factors" to be
asinine in their utter vacuity with regard to the subject.


So I do not even agree with the primacy which is given to anxiety/depression
in
these diseases because examinations of the disease which actually have some
neurobiological depth find that anxeity/depression have little to do with
the
disease process. It is a sideshow produced by persons who know nothing of
the
disease and are prefectly content to send both the patients and neurological
investigations into their disease into the garbage chute. What has been
occuring has been a type of medical and sociological final solution to a
disease and its sufferers which appear to be bizarre to many uninformed.


But because the numbers of affected is so high, the culture and the society
is
forced to make some kind of adjustments in its willingness to admit the
reality
of the disease, but because it resists explanations outside of the
intellectual
box it has been taught, it still cannot accept chemical intolerance because
it
cannot fit the emical intolerance together with the affective disorders,
because it is not willing to alter its dogma regarding how affective
disorders
present themselves with other brain symptoms in body-brain diseases.


No I'm sorry but this is not simply about terminology.


Don't kid yourselves. If you think the debate is resolved by physicians who
like to throw around big terms like "somatization" as if they are experts on
the topic, don't kid yourselves. Go get your Shrink's license and do the
kind
psycho babbling and psycho labelling instead of passing yourselves off as
honest scientists. In that role, rather than as the frustrated shrinks you
presently are, you can get all the hard-ons you want writing profiles for
Abnormal Psychology journals.


By the way, I just recently spoke to a mother of an autistic child who said
her
child has "raging" chemical sensitivities. This I think will demand some
more
inventive, delusional, and self-elevating psychobabble from frustrated
psychologists in the physicians lounge. Autistic children make good meat for
physicians contemptuous of new diseases which stretch their education.


Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity
syndromes are beyond the medical education and intellect of the present
generation. The medical textbooks which properly deal with these diseases
medically and scientifically will be written by the next generation. The
present generation of sci/med professionals generally will protect its
intellectual turf until it retires, and hese patients will be scoffed at,
ridiculed, marginalized etc. until fresh yound minds, which will not find
these
diseases to be strange, will give these diseases the study and respect they


It
used to be referred to as 'the Vapors'.

Soreness at an injection site is not an unusual reaction. Ten years
of study done. Followup reports provide no proof of Gardasil being a
direct cause for incidental health issues (such as a case of
Epilepsy) .

Done by whom?

The drugmaker Merck.

And
*organized medicine*

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16891832/

See the LIES there.

==

The side effects include pain, swelling, itching, and redness at the
injection site, fever, nausea, dizziness, vomiting, and fainting. GARDASIL
is given as 3 injections over 6 months.

I'm not sure how many of these incidental reports involved receiving
multiple vaccinations at the same time. My boot camp memories of
getting multiple vaccinations were of walking in a line, receiving air-
gun type injections in both arms, simultaneously....and then we 'ran'
out a door and down a flight of stairs. A couple of 'delicate
flowers' did faint on the way down the stairs.

It is wonderful that followup's are being tracked and analyzed, but
IMHO there is nothing being reported that should strike fear in the
hearts of man. Except for the very nervous and angry "fear-mongers".

But Merck has doubled its spending on lobbyists in Texas this year, to
between $150,000 and $250,000, as lawmakers consider the vaccine bill for
girls entering the sixth grade.

Also, the drugmaker has hired one of the state's most powerful lobbyists,
Mike Toomey, who once served as Republican Gov. Rick Perry's chief of staff
and can influence conservatives who see him as one of their own.

Gardasil Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Vaccine

On June 8, 2006, the FDA licensed Gardasil�, the first vaccine developed to
prevent cervical cancer caused by certain kinds of human papillomavirus
(HPV). Since then, more than 12 million doses of Gardasil vaccine have been
distributed. In 2006, a total of 2,151,000 doses were distributed and in
2007, another 11,317,902. At this time, the U.S. does not have a national
registry for immunization and vaccination and therefore cannot report the
total number of people who have received Gardasil.

Gardasil has been tested in more than 11,000 females 9 to 26 years of age in
many countries around the world, including the United States. These studies
found the HPV vaccine is safe and causes no serious side effects. The most
common side effect is injection site pain.

VAERS Reports Related to Gardasil Vaccination
June 8, 2006 through April 30, 2008
Note: VAERS defines serious adverse events by the Code of Federal
Regulations as adverse events involving hospitalization, death, permanent
disability, and life-threatening illness. Also, VAERS data are updated
continuously and the number of reports will vary depending on the date of
analysis.

The following reports were submitted to VAERS between the date the vaccine
was licensed (June 8, 2006) and April 30, 2008.

VAERS received 7,802 reports after Gardasil vaccination in the U.S. Less
than 7% reported serious side effects, about half of the average for
vaccines overall.

Deaths

VAERS received 15 reports of death following Gardasil vaccination in the
U.S. Only 10 reports contained the level of information adequate for further
analysis. After careful review of those reports we could not establish the
causal relationship between vaccination and death. For the remaining 5
reports of death, we were unable to obtain any patient identifying
information; therefore we could not confirm death outcomes. Note: While
Gardasil was being tested in the U.S. before it was licensed, 10 people in
the group that received the HPV vaccine and 7 people in the placebo group
died during the trials. None of the deaths was considered vaccine-related.

Guillain-Barr� Syndrome (GBS)

Note: GBS cases take longer to verify because each case must be confirmed
manually by CISA staff after reviewing the patient's medical record.

VAERS received 31 reports of Guillain-Barr� Syndrome (GBS) after Gardasil
vaccination in the U.S. Ten have been confirmed. Of the 10 confirmed GBS
cases, 5 reported vaccination with Menactra and Gardasil at the same time.
Of the remaining 21 reports, 7 did not meet the case definition for GBS
(when evaluated by the Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment (CISA)
group), 1 had symptoms of GBS prior to vaccination, 4 are unconfirmed
reports, and 9 are pending additional follow-up.

Because GBS occurs at a rate of 1 to 2 per 100,000 person-years during the
second decade of life, it is likely that some cases occur after vaccination
by chance alone and are not caused by vaccination. Among 9 to 26 year-olds,
the number of reports of GBS received by VAERS are within the range that
could be expected to occur by chance alone after a vaccination. Studies are
underway to evaluate the risk of GBS that may be associated with receipt of
Menactra vaccine.

Page last reviewed: June 16, 2008
Page last updated: June 16, 2008
Content source: Immunization Safety Office, Office of the Chief Science
Officer
===
So much for Coleah.





From: vernono on

"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:SYImk.16546$xZ.7018(a)nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> "Coleah" <coleah(a)pacifier.com> wrote in message
> news:d6938be0-78eb-4759-b7d3-44d8024d551d(a)x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 7, 4:51 am, "JOHN" <j...(a)nospam.com> wrote:
>
> JOHN" <john(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:uamdnQXXOJ01WAfVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>> Girls report severe reactions to Gardasil vaccine July 10th, 2008
>> Katherine
>> Kimzey, 14, talks about suffering seizures, fainting, headaches and
>> stiffness after her second dose of Gardasil. Girls and women around the
>> country have reported severe reactions to the vaccine designed to protect
>> against the human papillomavirus and cervical cancer.
>> http://www.whas11.com/video/index.html?nvid=262209
>>
>> [June 2008] HPV vaccine's suspected side effects cause concern; CDC says
>> drug is safe http://www.whale.to/vaccine/hpv_vaccine1.html
>>
>> Katherine Kimzey started suffering debilitating headaches, fainting
>> spells
>> and arthritis-like stiffness last November. Six weeks later, the
>> 14-year-old
>> Dallas resident became so dizzy she could barely walk. She was
>> hospitalized
>> and missed three weeks of school. Then, she had a seizure. For weeks, she
>> bounced back and forth between specialists and was eventually diagnosed
>> with
>> epilepsy.
>>
>>
>
>
>> Girls report severe reactions to Gardasil vaccine July 10th, 2008
>> Katherine
>> Kimzey, 14, talks about suffering seizures, fainting, headaches and
>> stiffness after her second dose of Gardasil. Girls and women around the
>> country have reported severe reactions to the vaccine designed to protect
>> against the human papillomavirus and cervical
>> cancer.http://www.whas11.com/video/index.html?nvid=262209
>>
>> [June 2008] HPV vaccine's suspected side effects cause concern; CDC says
>> drug is safe
> http://www.whale.to/vaccine/hpv_vaccine1.html
>
>>
>> Katherine Kimzey started suffering debilitating headaches, fainting
>> spells
>> and arthritis-like stiffness last November. Six weeks later, the
>> 14-year-old
>> Dallas resident became so dizzy she could barely walk. She was
>> hospitalized
>> and missed three weeks of school. Then, she had a seizure. For weeks, she
>> bounced back and forth between specialists and was eventually diagnosed
>> with
>> epilepsy.
>
> ====================
>
> I do hope that by posting this you are not claiming this girl's
> Epilepsy was a direct 'reaction' to Gardasil vaccine.

My son in law fainted twice when my grandson was given shots.
Dangerous stuff those shots.

My brother fainted when given shots in the Army and he was one who gave
shots to others.

Oh well.
I'm too stupid to even get the pains or soreness that others get from some
shots.

>
> Many (delicate flower) girls faint from injections (or blood tests for
> that matter). Aside from injections, some girls are taken to
> headaches and fainting spells at times of phychological stress.
>
> Psycholobabble...
>
> The entity *somatization disorder* is psychobabble and is obtained from
> the
> DSM-IV manual and is used by psychologists and psychiatrists.MD's have
> borrowed
> the entity for their own uses. It is a spurious diagnosis with no
> laboratory
> indicators.
>
>
> that somatization disorder is a kind of junk category into which
> physicians
> dump patients presenting with mind/behaviorialsymptoms and/or a history of
> such
> which the physician does not fancy or understand, especially if the
> patient
> does not present with symptoms or symptoms which are not separate
> diagnoses
> (also anon-scientific way of separating symptoms and causality) . I
> mentiont
> his because mercury and lead are both known to cause primarily
> "psychiatric"
> symptoms, with a history of emotional instability, etc.in patients.
>
>
> So a "scientist" is someone who makes "a priori" judgements about what
> neurological symptoms a heavy metal poisoned patient can and cannot have.
> A
> "scientist" demands laboratory indicators whenever his fraternity does so.
> When the fraternity does not do so, the esteemed scientist Rx's Prozac
> like
> *mad*. But if the patient's complaints appear in some kind of package
> which
> don't meet the prejudices of the male clinician/voodoo doctor, then it's
> necessary to pull out theDSM-IV manual and wax on about scientific
> discipline
> and create from thin air a "somatization disorder".
>
>
> It's just another way of saying that one can create a loose definition of
> a
> nebulous condition and then stretch it to label anything which appears
> bizarre,
> so that rather than actually diagnose and solve problems you can dump the
> ones
> you don't like into the recycle bin andlet the DSM-IV manual thumpers
> profit
> from the stash. That way everybody is happy. The male voodoo doctor gets
> to
> see himself as a scientist and the psych therapist gets another client.
>
>
> I believe that SD is used by doctors who do not like the idea that
> conditiions
> which affect the brain cause certain mental states and behaviors which are
> not
> in keeping with their own requirements for how disease is supposed to
> manifest
> in the human body. I believe the medical profession has an alliance with
> the
> psych profession because they share a common belief system.
>
>
> No, the starting point is to go back to college and unlearn the
> psychobabble
> taught to physicians in med school. But that cannot be done--with all the
> psychological investments involved in the career and selfhood and one's
> supremecy of being--so instead one wages war on the Chronic Fatigue,
> Fibromyalgia, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivitysyndromes, since these
> syndromes
> are diseases of both body and brain,in which affective disorders are
> documented
> in all three. But since the Freudian-psychobabble-educated physician
> suffers
> cognitivedissonance when presented with these, the syndromes must be
> attacked.
> Continuing education is not an option. Instead, reality must be shaped to
> fit
> the psychological needs of the profession, and the patients need to be
> hazed.
>
>
> So rather than counsel with a psychotherapist over issues of selfhood and
> megalomania and deep insecurity which interfere with the process of
> continuing
> education--which is also the scientific process itself--it is necessary to
> reformulate these disease syndromes so that they fit into the 20th-century
> mind-body conceptual dualism taught to physicians, in which brain diseases
> are
> separate from diseases of thebody and mind states are separate from both.
> This
> needs to be done despite the fact that poisons such as lead and mercury
> have
> been known for 100 years to poison the brain, body, and mind all at the
> same
> time. So Science needs to be bent and manipulated to serve a profession
> which
> maintains a conceputal framework which is not rooted in Science, and those
> teachings must be maintained for those sychologically inclined to
> conservatism
> and intellectual dominance,all properly wrapped in the impressive rhetoric
> of
> scientific and clinical objectivity.
>
>
> A lot of your responses are flak garbage which you use to exhaust
> pariticpants.
> I made my position perfectly clear. Decades of psychobiological research,
> including century-long scientfically acquired knowledge on the effect of
> poisons such as heavy metals on the brain, show that mood and mental
> states can
> and do derive fromorganic origins. Meanwhile state-credentialed MD's are
> writing books and articles about how biological psychiatry is
> "pseudoscience",
> a"myth", and a "fraud". On *this* subject the present generation is
> corrupt,
> and is not going to give up its intellectual commitment to the
> psychobabble it
> received in med school.
>
>
> On the issue of MCS, ascribing "affective disorders" to "psychologicalf
> actors"
> is an opinion which is rammed through as Science. It is accompanied by
> dismissive descriptions of mind states and behavior of the patients, with
> all
> kinds of unscientific judgements andassumptions as to 1) whether those
> mind
> states and behavior arelegitimate (e.g. fear of chemicals, stress of
> chronic
> illness), and 2)whether the mind states and behavior have an organic or
> non-organic origin.
>
>
> MCS *will* receive a fair hearing only when the medical profession gives
> up its
> intellecutal commitment to the teachings of psychology as the only
> explanation
> for how mind states and behavior alter with disease.
>
>
> You asked me for evidence of "mind-body conceptual dualism" and I just
> gave an
> example from a psychobabbling physician in this thread. Your technique is
> to
> bait and throw out idiotic flak, so that now we can have a separate
> existential
> debate as to whether there really is adualistic mind-body conception in
> modern
> medicine.
>
>
> Yes, physicians do recognize a connection between the two--they call it
> somatization disorder. That is, your boyfriend broke up with you and you
> are
> self-pitiful due to your past child raising and have along history of
> maladaptive behaviors and you have sunken into depression and can't
> concentrate
> and now your immunity has sunk and now you have an infection etc etc.
> They may
> *also* talk about a"psychological component" as being the result of
> chronic
> stress from the illness.
>
>
> But the medical profession is selective about when the connection operates
> in
> one direction vs. the other.
>
>
> The fact is, there isn't an economy for the problem of chronic mercury and
> lead
> exposure causing maladaptive dysfunctional unhealthy minds and behaviors.
> Not
> because the science doesn't exist to support it. But because the economy
> doesn't exist to produce the professional intellect to study, talk about,
> and
> treat it. The psychotherapists and psychologists would be in less demand.
> There would be no drugs to patent. Hence the facts are dropped from
> consciousness. That mercury and lead f**k up people's emotions and minds
> (in
> addition to a hundred other symptoms) is so dropped out of consciousness
> that
> MD's can write books that argue that Biological Psychiatry is a fraud.
>
>
> As a result, one must conclude that MCS is not caused by poisons--which
> just
> about everyone who has the illness and has clinical experience treating it
> argues--but rather is a somatization disorder.
>
>
> This is how economy and professional cultures distort reality and allow
> ingrained assumptions and bias to manipulate and distort the process of
> scientific inquiry.
>
>
> No, many physicians recognize that they are often dealing with illnesses
> that
> involve both the mind & the body. It would seem as if you are attributing
> their admission of this fact to some sort of denial instead. Incorrect.
> But
> commonly the same conclusion that some patients erroneously arrive at if
> the
> doc declines to attribute the illness to physical factors alone.
>
>
> This thread is in the context of MCS. Within the context of this subject
> physicians *do not* generally conceive or discuss depression*or* anxiety
> in any
> terms other than the psychologist's, regardless *how* the psychologist
> constructs the relationship, it is the*psychologist's* constructiona and
> the
> psychologist's ideology. The very own terminology employed by the author
> of
> the medical textbook cited, who is at the pro-MCS end of the debate
> *within*
> the mainstream, is that it is an illness with "psychological factors".
>
>
> Since you mention arthritis in the context of this thread on MCS (which is
> a
> disease its propopents argue is the result of*poisoning*), I will say that
> poisons such as lead and mercury commonly causes brain symptoms *first*,
> because these poisons are emically attracted to brain tissue. The first
> stage
> of these poisonings is commonly brain symptoms only. Patients may suffer
> depression or anxiety for *years* before the symptoms originating in
> organs
> *below neck* emerge in sufficient degree to cause the patient to seek
> care. So
> the depression in these cases does *not* follow arthritis and the
> depression is
> not something "psychological" *asdistinct* from the physical. The
> depression
> is not of the"psychological" domain. It is a physical symptom no less
> than
> arthritis. It is not a "component" and it is not a "factor". It is
> a*symptom*.
>
>
> The problem is conceptualizing depression and anxiety as being in
> adifferent
> category than "physical" symptoms. This division in thought is reflected
> by
> your own use of language and the very manner in which you discuss
> depression in
> relation to other symptoms. Depression commonly bears no relation to the
> other
> symptoms except they both share a similar cause in some *poison* which has
> attacked the brain together with other organs in the body.This
> conceptualizing
> is largely responsible for the opposition to these diseases by the medical
> profession.>
>
>
> Depression is not a *component* by "a priori" assumption. If doctors want
> to
> assume the nature of the pathology in a conceptual framework and language
> *originated by psychologists*, then they should seek psychology as a
> career and
> *not* human physiology. If doctors want to educate us about how
> depression
> affects human health--but *not* how mercury and lead affect affect brain
> and
> emotional and mental health--then they should be psychologists and lecture
> on
> Ophrah Winfrey, but *not* manipulate the research and interpretation of
> MCS
> research by projecting their own indoctrination onto reality.>
>
>
> Depression needn't be a *component* and it needn't be a *factor *simply
> because
> psychologists (and physicians loyal to their ideology) insist that it be
> so.
>
>
> I do not agree that I am arguing with myself and I do not agree we are
> simply
> talking about terminology. I have a good first-hand understanding of the
> disease, I have a good understanding of non-mainstream discussions of the
> disease, and I have good understanding of mainstream discussions of the
> disease. Within the mainstream the depression/anxiety is presently
> discussed
> as being a"factor" or "component"--*not* a symptom. Ten years ago the
> depression/anxiety was discussed as being *causative*. There has beena
> gradual
> shift in language as the disorder has been *grudgingly*accepted as being
> somatic, but the acceptance has been gradual, in which the
> depression/anxiety
> has altered from being "primary" to being a "factor" or a "component". No
> this
> is not simply terminology but reflects changing conceptions of the disease
> as
> the medical society isslowly accepting that chemical intolerance exists,
> but
> cannot shake lose its belief system for how depression and anxiety play a
> role
> in these diseases.
>
>
> You say that much is not understood about the disease. Then I expect that
> the
> medical society which you defend *suspend* its assumptiosn about
> depression/anxeity being primary *or* a "component" or "factor"in any
> causative
> way regarding chemical intolerance, and to cease using language which
> communicates that very conception.
>
>
> A neurologist who has decribed what actually happens in MCS is that the
> brain
> is abnormally stimulated by the chemical and an electrochemical reaction
> occurs
> in the brain in which the neurotoxicant glutamate is released and brain
> cells
> swell and the patients suffers debiliitating symptoms. He further states
> that
> this process is a process of ongoing injury to brain cells, a disease of
> pre-existing brain cell injury with continuing brain cell injury
> uponchemical
> exposures. He reached these conclusions after studying changes in EEG
> measurements in which patients were exposed tochemicals such as paint,
> gasoline, perfume, lacquer, etc. He found wildly altering EEG
> measurements
> upon chemical exposure and found evidence of dementia in the patient in
> various
> areas of the brain, with brain function deteriorating upon exposure. This
> neurologist'sattempt 10 years ago to gather a scientific audience for his
> findingsresearch was frustrated and obstructed while at the same time
> descriptions by mainstream medical scientists and professionals of
> "affective
> disorders" being primary or a causitive "factor" or"component" are
> accepted
> without question. I think that if one examines the *neurological*
> observations
> made and explanations advanced for what is happening in the brain upon
> chemical
> exposures, one would find the descriptions of "affective disorders" and
> "somatization disorders" as being causitive "components"/"factors" to be
> asinine in their utter vacuity with regard to the subject.
>
>
> So I do not even agree with the primacy which is given to
> anxiety/depression in
> these diseases because examinations of the disease which actually have
> some
> neurobiological depth find that anxeity/depression have little to do with
> the
> disease process. It is a sideshow produced by persons who know nothing of
> the
> disease and are prefectly content to send both the patients and
> neurological
> investigations into their disease into the garbage chute. What has been
> occuring has been a type of medical and sociological final solution to a
> disease and its sufferers which appear to be bizarre to many uninformed.
>
>
> But because the numbers of affected is so high, the culture and the
> society is
> forced to make some kind of adjustments in its willingness to admit the
> reality
> of the disease, but because it resists explanations outside of the
> intellectual
> box it has been taught, it still cannot accept chemical intolerance
> because it
> cannot fit the emical intolerance together with the affective disorders,
> because it is not willing to alter its dogma regarding how affective
> disorders
> present themselves with other brain symptoms in body-brain diseases.
>
>
> No I'm sorry but this is not simply about terminology.
>
>
> Don't kid yourselves. If you think the debate is resolved by physicians
> who
> like to throw around big terms like "somatization" as if they are experts
> on
> the topic, don't kid yourselves. Go get your Shrink's license and do the
> kind
> psycho babbling and psycho labelling instead of passing yourselves off as
> honest scientists. In that role, rather than as the frustrated shrinks
> you
> presently are, you can get all the hard-ons you want writing profiles for
> Abnormal Psychology journals.
>
>
> By the way, I just recently spoke to a mother of an autistic child who
> said her
> child has "raging" chemical sensitivities. This I think will demand some
> more
> inventive, delusional, and self-elevating psychobabble from frustrated
> psychologists in the physicians lounge. Autistic children make good meat
> for
> physicians contemptuous of new diseases which stretch their education.
>
>
> Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity
> syndromes are beyond the medical education and intellect of the present
> generation. The medical textbooks which properly deal with these diseases
> medically and scientifically will be written by the next generation. The
> present generation of sci/med professionals generally will protect its
> intellectual turf until it retires, and hese patients will be scoffed at,
> ridiculed, marginalized etc. until fresh yound minds, which will not find
> these
> diseases to be strange, will give these diseases the study and respect
> they
>
>
> It
> used to be referred to as 'the Vapors'.
>
> Soreness at an injection site is not an unusual reaction. Ten years
> of study done. Followup reports provide no proof of Gardasil being a
> direct cause for incidental health issues (such as a case of
> Epilepsy) .
>
> Done by whom?
>
> The drugmaker Merck.
>
> And
> *organized medicine*
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16891832/
>
> See the LIES there.
>
> ==
>
> The side effects include pain, swelling, itching, and redness at the
> injection site, fever, nausea, dizziness, vomiting, and fainting. GARDASIL
> is given as 3 injections over 6 months.
>
> I'm not sure how many of these incidental reports involved receiving
> multiple vaccinations at the same time. My boot camp memories of
> getting multiple vaccinations were of walking in a line, receiving air-
> gun type injections in both arms, simultaneously....and then we 'ran'
> out a door and down a flight of stairs. A couple of 'delicate
> flowers' did faint on the way down the stairs.
>
> It is wonderful that followup's are being tracked and analyzed, but
> IMHO there is nothing being reported that should strike fear in the
> hearts of man. Except for the very nervous and angry "fear-mongers".
>
> But Merck has doubled its spending on lobbyists in Texas this year, to
> between $150,000 and $250,000, as lawmakers consider the vaccine bill for
> girls entering the sixth grade.
>
> Also, the drugmaker has hired one of the state's most powerful lobbyists,
> Mike Toomey, who once served as Republican Gov. Rick Perry's chief of
> staff and can influence conservatives who see him as one of their own.
>
> Gardasil Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Vaccine
>
> On June 8, 2006, the FDA licensed Gardasil�, the first vaccine developed
> to prevent cervical cancer caused by certain kinds of human papillomavirus
> (HPV). Since then, more than 12 million doses of Gardasil vaccine have
> been distributed. In 2006, a total of 2,151,000 doses were distributed and
> in 2007, another 11,317,902. At this time, the U.S. does not have a
> national registry for immunization and vaccination and therefore cannot
> report the total number of people who have received Gardasil.
>
> Gardasil has been tested in more than 11,000 females 9 to 26 years of age
> in many countries around the world, including the United States. These
> studies found the HPV vaccine is safe and causes no serious side effects.
> The most common side effect is injection site pain.
>
> VAERS Reports Related to Gardasil Vaccination
> June 8, 2006 through April 30, 2008
> Note: VAERS defines serious adverse events by the Code of Federal
> Regulations as adverse events involving hospitalization, death, permanent
> disability, and life-threatening illness. Also, VAERS data are updated
> continuously and the number of reports will vary depending on the date of
> analysis.
>
> The following reports were submitted to VAERS between the date the vaccine
> was licensed (June 8, 2006) and April 30, 2008.
>
> VAERS received 7,802 reports after Gardasil vaccination in the U.S. Less
> than 7% reported serious side effects, about half of the average for
> vaccines overall.
>
> Deaths
>
> VAERS received 15 reports of death following Gardasil vaccination in the
> U.S. Only 10 reports contained the level of information adequate for
> further analysis. After careful review of those reports we could not
> establish the causal relationship between vaccination and death. For the
> remaining 5 reports of death, we were unable to obtain any patient
> identifying information; therefore we could not confirm death outcomes.
> Note: While Gardasil was being tested in the U.S. before it was licensed,
> 10 people in the group that received the HPV vaccine and 7 people in the
> placebo group died during the trials. None of the deaths was considered
> vaccine-related.
>
> Guillain-Barr� Syndrome (GBS)
>
> Note: GBS cases take longer to verify because each case must be confirmed
> manually by CISA staff after reviewing the patient's medical record.
>
> VAERS received 31 reports of Guillain-Barr� Syndrome (GBS) after Gardasil
> vaccination in the U.S. Ten have been confirmed. Of the 10 confirmed GBS
> cases, 5 reported vaccination with Menactra and Gardasil at the same time.
> Of the remaining 21 reports, 7 did not meet the case definition for GBS
> (when evaluated by the Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment (CISA)
> group), 1 had symptoms of GBS prior to vaccination, 4 are unconfirmed
> reports, and 9 are pending additional follow-up.
>
> Because GBS occurs at a rate of 1 to 2 per 100,000 person-years during the
> second decade of life, it is likely that some cases occur after
> vaccination by chance alone and are not caused by vaccination. Among 9 to
> 26 year-olds, the number of reports of GBS received by VAERS are within
> the range that could be expected to occur by chance alone after a
> vaccination. Studies are underway to evaluate the risk of GBS that may be
> associated with receipt of Menactra vaccine.
>
> Page last reviewed: June 16, 2008
> Page last updated: June 16, 2008
> Content source: Immunization Safety Office, Office of the Chief Science
> Officer
> ===
> So much for Coleah.
>
>
>
>
>


From: Peter Bowditch on
Myrl <wisgroup_leader(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Aug 7, 6:11�am, Coleah <col...(a)pacifier.com> wrote:
>
>> I do hope that by posting this you are not claiming this girl's
>> Epilepsy was a direct 'reaction' to Gardasil vaccine.
>>
>> Many (delicate flower) girls faint from injections (or blood tests for
>> that matter). �Aside from injections, some girls are taken to
>> headaches and �fainting spells at times of phychological stress. �It
>> used to be referred to as 'the Vapors'.
>>
>> Soreness at an injection site is not an unusual reaction. �Ten years
>> of study done. �Followup reports provide no proof of Gardasil being a
>> direct cause for incidental health issues (such as a case of
>> Epilepsy) .
>>
>> I'm not sure how many of these incidental reports involved receiving
>> multiple vaccinations at the same time. �My boot camp memories of
>> getting multiple vaccinations were of walking in a line, receiving air-
>> gun type injections in both arms, simultaneously....and then we 'ran'
>> out a door and down a flight of stairs. �A couple of 'delicate
>> flowers' did faint on the way down the stairs.
>>
>> It is wonderful that followup's are being tracked and analyzed, but
>> IMHO there is nothing being reported that should strike fear in the
>> hearts of man. � Except for the very nervous and angry "fear-mongers".
>
>
>And sadly, while reporting these few incidents, in the midst of their
>hystrionics, anti-vac folks won't address the 250,000 - 290,000 women
>who die globally each year from Cervical Cancer. Nor do they speak
>about the millions that require treatment for other HPV related
>disease, such as genital warts, certain oral cancers, etc.
>
>They are so focused on their fear mongering, that they can't see the
>proverbial forest, for the trees.

It's because they don't care about the number of people who die from
vaccine-preventable diseases. These are merely sacrifices on the path
to the objective, which is the total abolition of vaccines. If a
million children should die from a disease then that is the price that
must be paid to protect the anti-vaccination liar's child from the
remote possibility of an adverse reaction.

--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
From: Jeff on
On Aug 7, 4:31 pm, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> "Coleah" <col...(a)pacifier.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d6938be0-78eb-4759-b7d3-44d8024d551d(a)x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 7, 4:51 am, "JOHN" <j...(a)nospam.com> wrote:
>
> JOHN" <j...(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
>
> news:uamdnQXXOJ01WAfVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>
> > Girls report severe reactions to Gardasil vaccine July 10th, 2008
> > Katherine
> > Kimzey, 14, talks about suffering seizures, fainting, headaches and
> > stiffness after her second dose of Gardasil. Girls and women around the
> > country have reported severe reactions to the vaccine designed to protect
> > against the human papillomavirus and cervical cancer.
> >http://www.whas11.com/video/index.html?nvid=262209
>
> > [June 2008] HPV vaccine's suspected side effects cause concern; CDC says
> > drug is safehttp://www.whale.to/vaccine/hpv_vaccine1.html
>
> > Katherine Kimzey started suffering debilitating headaches, fainting spells
> > and arthritis-like stiffness last November. Six weeks later, the
> > 14-year-old
> > Dallas resident became so dizzy she could barely walk. She was
> > hospitalized
> > and missed three weeks of school. Then, she had a seizure. For weeks, she
> > bounced back and forth between specialists and was eventually diagnosed
> > with
> > epilepsy.
>
> > Girls report severe reactions to Gardasil vaccine July 10th, 2008
> > Katherine
> > Kimzey, 14, talks about suffering seizures, fainting, headaches and
> > stiffness after her second dose of Gardasil. Girls and women around the
> > country have reported severe reactions to the vaccine designed to protect
> > against the human papillomavirus and cervical
> > cancer.http://www.whas11.com/video/index.html?nvid=262209
>
> > [June 2008] HPV vaccine's suspected side effects cause concern; CDC says
> > drug is safe
>
> http://www.whale.to/vaccine/hpv_vaccine1.html
>
>
>
> > Katherine Kimzey started suffering debilitating headaches, fainting spells
> > and arthritis-like stiffness last November. Six weeks later, the
> > 14-year-old
> > Dallas resident became so dizzy she could barely walk. She was
> > hospitalized
> > and missed three weeks of school. Then, she had a seizure. For weeks, she
> > bounced back and forth between specialists and was eventually diagnosed
> > with
> > epilepsy.
>
> ====================
>
> I do hope that by posting this you are not claiming this girl's
> Epilepsy was a direct 'reaction' to Gardasil vaccine.
>
> Many (delicate flower) girls faint from injections (or blood tests for
> that matter).  Aside from injections, some girls are taken to
> headaches and  fainting spells at times of phychological stress.
>
> Psycholobabble...
>
> The entity *somatization disorder* is psychobabble and is obtained from the
> DSM-IV manual and is used by psychologists and psychiatrists.MD's have
> borrowed
> the entity for their own uses.  It is a spurious diagnosis with no
> laboratory
> indicators.

You know, you're too funny! Just because someone faints after getting
an injection doesn't mean that the person has a disorder. Today, one
of the kids on my soccer team cried because another kid said that he
touch the ball with his hand. Does he has a disorder? No, he is just a
6 year old who needs someone to listen.

> that somatization disorder is a kind of junk category into which physicians
> dump patients presenting with mind/behaviorialsymptoms and/or a history of
> such
> which the physician does not fancy or understand, especially if the patient
> does not present with symptoms or symptoms which are not separate diagnoses
> (also anon-scientific way of separating symptoms and causality).

Symptoms are never diagnoses. Symptoms are problems that the patients
tell physicians and other health care professionals.

>  I
> mentiont
> his because mercury and lead are both known to cause primarily "psychiatric"
> symptoms, with a history of emotional instability, etc.in patients.

Is there too much mecury or lead in your diet?

> So a "scientist" is someone who makes "a priori" judgements about what
> neurological symptoms a heavy metal poisoned patient can and cannot have.

ROFL! You have got to go to the store and buy a clue.

<Rest of garbage deleted. I don't want to laugh all night!>

Jeff